Matt discusses MSPX, a marketplace for MSPs to buy and sell individual managed services contracts as an alternative to acquiring entire businesses. The platform helps MSPs divest non-profitable or non-strategic clients and enables buyers to shorten sales cycles by targeting specific verticals or geographies, with typical pricing around 6–8x MRR (sometimes higher with negotiation and longer remaining terms). MSPX uses escrow, a structured 30-day transition dashboard, a legally drafted customer notification email with a novation agreement requiring the buyer to honour the existing MSA, and protections if a customer declines the transfer. Sellers complete a detailed intake form; buyers can ask questions via in-platform chat. Pricing includes $149/year membership, 7% seller commission, 1–2% escrow fee for buyers, and an optional $599/year “first look” tier. The main challenge is limited awareness due to bootstrapped marketing.
00:00 Welcome and Setup
00:36 MSPX Marketplace Explained
02:06 Why Sell Contracts
03:39 Pricing Multiples and Examples
06:22 Valuation and Risk Controls
09:19 End Client Consent and Escrow
13:48 Communication and Transition Playbook
18:34 Contract Intake and Buyer Due Diligence
20:32 Growth Challenges and Pricing Plans
25:00 Global Expansion Use Cases
28:26 Wrap Up and How to Join
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Connect with Matt Yesbeck on LinkedIn by clicking here – https://www.linkedin.com/in/mattyesbeck/
Connect with Daniel Welling on LinkedIn by clicking here – https://www.linkedin.com/in/danielwelling/
Connect with Adam Morris on LinkedIn by clicking here – https://www.linkedin.com/in/adamcmorris/
Visit The MSP Finance Team website, simply click here –https://www.mspfinanceteam.com/
MSP Glossary: MSP Finance Glossary Explained | MSP Finance Team
We look forward to catching up with you on the next one. Stay tuned!
Transcript:
Daniel: [00:00:00] Matt, welcome to the podcast
Matt: Hello. Thank you very much for having me
Daniel: you’re very welcome. And, this, this topic, is one that Adam and I are both re- really intrigued by, and I’m sure a lot of our listeners will be too. it’s a concept that it, it’s been, conceptual and discussed within the MSP marketplace for as long as I can remember.
and even back when in my original IT business, which of course wasn’t called an MSP then, it was something we wanted to do then as well. So, Adam and I are really behind you in getting this, getting this, concept moving. So the concept is, I, as an acquisitive MSP, can buy a client that is not a best fit client from another MSP, and therefore, augment my, growth and client acquisition model with mini, mini acquisitions or client-level acquisitions rather than buying a whole business.
please correct or [00:01:00] re- reframe my description to make it
Matt: Yeah, that’s perfect. I mean, really MSPX is the internet’s first and only marketplace for the buying and selling of managed services contracts. and of course, they are both, equally, needed, right? We need, MSPs that are willing to take a look at their portfolio and divest those customers that are either no longer profitable or not in a vertical that they’re moving towards.
And of course, we need MSPs that are willing to, acquire these. And of course, on the acquisition side, it’s great because it really truncates your sales cycle. It’s something that you’re able to do in a much quicker fashion and in a more targeted way because, you can really pick the vertical that you’re wanting to pull that contract out of and into your portfolio.
and from a divestiture side, it really just allows you to be able to transition that customer that has entrusted you with their IT services for a time, to get them moved over to a fully vetted and better suited MSP to continue to take care of their needs[00:02:00]
Daniel: Yeah, your description was a lot better than mine.
Adam: Yeah, sorry,
Matt: I do.
Adam: I interrupted
Matt: I do this every day.
Adam: I was just gonna say, and of course, obviously from a seller’s point of view, there is some monetiz- some monetary benefit as well,
Matt: Yeah, because
Adam: obviously helps to, lu- lubricate the deal
Matt: Yeah, absolutely. Because I mean, if you were going to essentially fire them anyway, then you’re not getting any money out the door, and you do risk bad word of mouth by essentially just calling them up and saying, “Hey, it’s us, not you,” but whatever the case may be, we’re terminating the contract.
And of course, with the small to medium-sized business, when IT isn’t their business, now they’re in a state of, what do we do? Now we’ve got to go out and we’ve got to engage other, IT services firms in the area and, do our due diligence to collect quotes and all this stuff, and it’s just a headache because it takes them away from their job and what they do, and time is money and it’s very inconvenient.
So, there, there is a [00:03:00] risk there for the MSP letting them go. And, a lot of times, or at least sometimes, I know MSPs will call up their competitor and say, “Hey, we’re getting ready to fire a client. We’re gonna recommend them to you. If they do happen to come over and you take them on, we’d appreciate a cut.”
But again, that’s all back channel and, shady and, you never really know how it’s gonna turn out. So, so yeah, the being able to list the contract as a seller on the marketplace really allows you to take s- get some money, some revenue for that contract as you’re, leaving that customer, and again, getting that customer to a better suited MSP that’s ready to take them over.
And generally what we see in terms of revenue, for that contract is typically between six to eight X MRR is typically what, the sweet spot is for, for selling a contract. And of course, there are variables, but that generally seems to be the sweet spot.
Daniel: the, the multiple you described, this is on [00:04:00] the selling price or the margin?
Matt: Yeah, the selling price. So imagine I’ve got a customer that, that is $1,000 a month, right? So a $12,000 ARR,$1,000 a month, MRR that I’m getting from that customer. And this is a customer that maybe they were one of our foundry customers. They’re a five-seater. We’ve had them for, since we started our business, so we’re five, six, seven years into it.
And now instead of just two employees, we’re 10 employees, and that customer that had a decent margin is now either costing us money or we’re breaking even on it. and the deal is, I mean, you’ve grown as the MSP, they haven’t grown as the client, so it’s not their fault, that you’re experiencing growth, but the margin’s no longer there.
So that $1,000 MRR customer, you can list that contract on the marketplace for anywhere between $6,000 and $8,000. And so for the buying MSP, that’s a decent deal because let’s just say you have that customer [00:05:00] and they’re signed to a 12-month contract. So, you go through and list them on the marketplace and a potential buying MSP sees, okay, well there’s, say there’s 10 months left in the contract.
They want $8,000 for it. the… Assuming the customer is going to fulfill the length of the contract, you’re gonna break even and then make a few thousand dollars, and that’s before the renewal even comes up, right? So and of course, we have MSPs that will go 24 and 36 months and of course, that will also help that, listing price, right?
‘Cause if I’ve got a customer that, has a 36-month contract and we’re 28 months remaining on that contract, then you could theoretically, warrant asking more for it. but we do have to remember that, while this isn’t a fire sale platform,it’s not, where you’re gonna go for y- necessarily the most premium, transfer, right?
You just have to be realistic. I mean, everybody thinks that they have gold and of course, it’s only worth, to, to you, or to [00:06:00] somebody else what they’re willing to pay for it. So that’s why we really try to level set expectations to say that a 6 to X, 6 to 8X, MRR is typically where the sp- sweet spot is, where you’ll get good engagement from our, our members on the acquisition side
Adam: So, I mean, it sounds to me that six to eight X, it seems to make sense just in terms of that kind of risk management piece. how do you educate buyers and sellers, well, buyers in p- sorry, sellers in particular about their price that they set? Do you have like some kind of little questionnaire or tool set or something and/or how did you sort of approach this thorny subject
Matt: Right
Adam: coming to some kind of middle ground around valuation?
Matt: Yeah. the valuation thing just kind of came through, feedback from MSPs and,it was through reading the emails, talking through,chats, having phone calls about the platform and their [00:07:00] experience and, and that’s really where we dialed in what it looks like generally that people are most comfortable paying.
we’ve had some contracts that were listed for a 12X MRR and they, stay longer on the platform and eventually they end up negotiating down and I think that one, finally went out at like a 9 or 10 X. but,generally speaking, just in the feedback that we’re receiving, that’s really where the sweet spot is.
And again, because it’s all about, like you said, the risk management, right? We don’t want to pay too much for a contract, and then we get it and,once you go through our 30-day transition dashboard, you’ve got the customer. So the only reason they would be churning is if you didn’t give them the same great service you give all of your other customers, right?
But when that contract does come up for renewal, that, that does always, present a situation of you having to continue to prove yourself and get them locked in for another term. so generally speaking, again, I mean, it’s really the length that, that is remaining on [00:08:00] that contract versus what the seller’s asking for it, and you just– that math just has to make sense.
But because we’ve given structure and security around that whole process, it’s no longer a back channel thing or a handshake. it, it is escrowed funds, it is a transition dashboard. there, there’s a whole process to it that really helps to reduce the, the, attrition of a customer through a process like this.
Daniel: I’ve got probab- probably about 8,000 questions for you, and we’ve only got 20 minutes or so, left. So, let me, let me focus perhaps on some of the ob- objections that you’re gonna have to overcome. And by the way, it sounds like, there’s a lot of thought, that’s gone into this, to give confidence to buyer and seller.
the seller clearly goes into this with their eyes open in terms of the risk that they take on. and, and they of course have to compare that and the money they spend against what their [00:09:00] organic out in the real world costs are of acquiring a client and,
Adam: You mean buyer? Buyer, not seller
Daniel: the buyer.
Sorry, yes, yeah. And,and of course,you could spend eight, eight thou- $8,000 trying to win a,a new customer and not have a customer at all and still have spent 8,000. So, so it’s already potentially more attractive. h- how– what about the end client’s view on all of this though?
So like, I’m not a piece of meat just being bought and sold one MSP to another. how do you get around that?
Matt: Well, I mean, we’re not,it’s not foreign, to, to people that, that an acquisition on the back end may occur. We see this with mortgages and other things that are bank related. We just haven’t seen it necessarily in the MSP industry, but that doesn’t mean that small to medium-sized businesses don’t know that’s not a common practice.
just because it hasn’t happened to them or maybe because it is, they could assume, okay, well maybe this kind of activity does happen. At the end of the day, yes, the customer has the final [00:10:00] decision because even if they’re locked into a contract, they still have the choice to say, yes, we’ll go along for the ride.
We’re going to entrust that you are gonna put us in a better position with a, with an MSP that can handle us and take care of our needs. Or, no thank you. We’re gonna go off on our own and make that choice for ourselves. It just comes down to time and confidence and trust and security and all that good stuff.
So the first thing I would say is that for the end customer, the MSP is gonna let them know through a, notification email, that we provide in the transition dashboard that their contract is being terminated, regardless of their decision to go along or to do it on their own. now of course, it’s worded much nicer than that, right?
So because we’re trying to instill confidence and security in this transition, but it’s essentially stating that the contract’s gonna be canceled either way or terminated either way. You can let us do all of the [00:11:00] heavy lifting for you. We’ll find the new MSP. We’ll get ev- We’ll sync up with that MSP.
We’ll do all of the migrations, all the transition stuff. You don’t have to worry about anything. Just, do your, what you do to make money for your business, right? Or you can say, “No, I don’t wanna do any of that. I want to choose our own MSP.” And then now they’re gonna have to take time out of their busy schedule to do this long process themselves.
So it really just comes down to what is gonna be the better solution for the customer. And really what we see largely is that again, because it- SMBs need IT, but IT isn’t their business, they would rather just have this handled for them and on the back end. As long as they’re not experiencing disruptions and as long as that transition is handled professionally and in contact and coordination with the end client, y- they, they are happy to go along for the move.
Now again, you’re always gonna have those customers that are micromanage- [00:12:00] managing and wanna have a full on, control of where they go and you can’t do anything about that. that’s why we have the escrow because if we get into the transition dashboard and the seller sends the provided letter to the customer and the customer says, “No, we want out.
We want to choose our next MSP,” then that transition fails and the, the money goes back out of escrow back to the buyer. So that’s the protection there. it’s just that through proper messaging and proper timing through our transition dashboard, we’ve, reduced the attrition rate greatly
Daniel: sounds
Matt: That often,
Daniel: very well thought out and, yeah, ma-makes, makes a lot of sense. So you’re, again, you’re s- you’re selling the benefit to the end client that they’re gonna have, this is gonna happen anyway and,and this is gonna be the path of least resistance.
And the buyer is now protected because they’re not gonna, they’re not gonna buy a client that doesn’t exist. so really the r- the risk is more, I would say, on the [00:13:00] seller once that notification is sent, they’re terminating, they’ve actually lost the potential value that contract would’ve given them.
But if they were selling it for reasons of their own, then yeah.
Matt: Yep. Yeah, so really it’s a win-win because again, if the seller was gonna let go of the customer anyway, when they send out that email and the customer says, “Okay, well, no, we’re gonna do it ourselves, so, sayonara,” right? it’s really, again, it’s no loss to the selling MSP because again, they were gonna let them go anyway.
And so now the end customer’s going by their own accord. So hopefully that would also kind of curtail any bad word of mouth because the seller sent them a nicely worded email trying to be as helpful as they can in the transition, and the customer chose to go off on their own. So again, for the seller, it’s a win-win as well
Daniel: And just to pick up on one, one piece there that I think, would be perhaps a reduction of the, of the risk of the end client saying, “Oh no, I’m not happy about [00:14:00] this,” is although an email is the formal notification, would you advise the seller having a, an actual in-person or virtual co- conversation, like a discussion to explain what’s gonna happen, then followed up by email?
Or is this just a, no, you send the email and that’s it?”
Matt: Yeah. I would personally through the transition, I would let that process, at least start with that email notification because it was written up by a legal firm. it’s professional. It includes the novation agreement, which basically tells the customer that the buying MSP will have to honor every letter of the current MSA until that MSA reaches its maturity date and is renegotiated, or renewed by the buying MSP.
So all that language is included in the, the email and I mean, it’s– if you get into a position where you’re picking up the phone and you’re trying to, feel out the [00:15:00] client by saying things like termination or moving you over or things like this, that can sometimes be a recipe for disaster. It can also spark up a conversation where the client is like, “Well, what can we do?
Can, do you want us to pay you more or,re-reduce some…” I don’t know. I mean, you can get into some variables that are unknown. And so I think that you just kind of expose yourself to the customer by picking up the phone that, in that way. I think the letter should go out first, the letter should be responded to, and then depending on the response from that letter, I think then maybe…
Because again, we have to keep the customer in the loop as the two MSPs are going through our transition dashboard and meeting all of these milestones, the customer is gonna have to be contacted, on a regular basis through this transition so that they don’t experience any interruption in their daily workflow.
So there’ll be plenty of communication. I just know that through practice, the [00:16:00] best thing to do is not to try to prep your client first unless you know them very well and y- and you know that they will be extremely receptive to the fact that you are having to move them to another MSP
Adam: I guess as, as well to some extent, there’s gonna be some, niggly-ness to this relationship for the most part, right? Otherwise, you probably wouldn’t be looking to move them into somewhere else. So there’s probably something right– probably something not quite right about the relationship. they won’t upgrade to your stack, they’re late on bills,they’re low maturity or maybe they’re too high on maturity.
But there’s something not quite right that, that… And there’s some kind of level of stress potentially in that relationship to
throw into
Matt: that certainly always could be. There’s just so many different variables because it could literally be the fact that you’re niching down to, say, healthcare as your vertical, and every other customer that’s not in healthcare needs to go if you’re gonna do it right, right? So you might [00:17:00] have a great customer that’s in retail or finance or some other industry, but they’re not in your chosen niched vertical that you have made a, an absolute, commitment to go to.
So they could be a great customer, but it’s just you’d rather, again, if you’re gonna do the niching down and verticalization right, then you need to focus entirely on that vertical and again, prune the customers that aren’t in that vertical. So it’s not always the case that they’re a problem child, and it could be a case that they’re a problem child for you and that could just be by poor training, right?
Like again, they– you brought them on as a foundry customer when you started your MSP, and so they have your cell phone number and they’re used to texting you and giving you phone calls, but you’ve long instituted a help desk ticketing system, but they’d rather text you, right? So there’s a lot of training issues there too that can be alleviated when they get moved over to a new MSP that has a structure in place, from the beginning, right?
So there’s a lot [00:18:00] of variables, but what you pointed out is absolutely a variable that, that could very well, be the case
Daniel: and of course the buy-in MSP is gonna have, a sufficient overview of the s- the status of the c- client and how much they’re paying and pr- presumably that’s part of the profile. Yeah, these are– th- this is a good paying client and we make a really good,profit margin on them and therefore that’s why, we’re looking for 10, 10 times.
and you might have one, yeah, pr- problem child, late payer, won’t pay, won’t pay, can’t pay. this is a one-time, a one-time, multiple
Matt: Exactly. And to your point, we have a comprehensive contract intake form. So, the, seller is going to go through, I believe it’s a seven or eight-page intake process that is asking a lot of questions and accumulating a lot of information that we know that the, the potential acquiring, MSP is going to wanna know about that [00:19:00] contract.
Now, some of those questions are, private. They’re not, exposed to the potential buyer. It’s more for us to collect information from a legal perspective. but a great deal of that information is listed on the contract within the marketplace. When you click on the view details, you see a whole lot more.
And if you have questions that aren’t answered by the details of the contract, we have an in-platform chat, so you’re able to click on it and ask that MSP that’s selling that contract any questions you want. And of course, as with, any in-platform chat of, any service, we do restrict things like sharing email addresses, phone numbers, because we don’t want, the selling MSP to be exposed, before the sale has occurred.
Now, once the sale has occurred, they’re moved into a transition dashboard where they also have a, in-platform chat, but it’s completely unrestricted because at that point, the buyer and seller know each other, fully aware of each [00:20:00] other, and need each other’s contact information. But when you’re just poking around asking questions about details of contracts, you can use the in, in-platform chat for that.
But again, we just limit it to, just asking questions and not actually sharing,personal or business information
Daniel: Super. Okay. I, I think,you had me at hello. I lo- I love the idea and I think it’s,it’s great that you’ve,you’ve put the effort in to get it to, to, to this stage. And, yeah, a lot of my ob- my objections I’m sure would be,would be countered.
So, what’s your biggest challenge right now to get this off the ground?
Matt: Yeah, great question. The biggest challenge really, because we are bootstrapped and we haven’t gone out for any seed rounds of funding or Series A or any of that, because we really want to,have a, an ecosystem where we are able to pull together lots of metrics,and good use case data that we know investors are gonna wanna need, are gonna wanna see.
And so, we’ve held [00:21:00] out. we’re bootstrapped. So the biggest challenge for us really is just awareness within the channel because our reach is only so far because our funds are limited. I spend, day and night in LinkedIn, and, and also on our Facebook side, but really more so on LinkedIn, just trying to,market to the channel, reach as many MSP owners as I possibly can to share and spread the word of MSPX, that we do exist.
Because at one point or another, no matter how old your MSP is, you’re either going to be a buyer or a seller. So it’s just a matter of time until the marketplace itself has meaningful value for you. But if you don’t know that it exists, y- you, you can’t come to it and contribute. And so we need parti- participation for the marketplace to flourish.
Without participation, we don’t have anything, right? So that’s the biggest challenge. We need more MSPs to join. the subscription fee is extremely low. It’s [00:22:00] $149 a year. and that again just, really allows us to, to try to keep the lights on and keep, more effort into getting the word out.
every last dollar that we do get that is not going to pay our infrastructure is going to, marketing. And, we j- we just need channel support because everybody’s gonna b- benefit from this. We just need,the ecosystem to start,really, thriving
Daniel: Re- really, really interesting. And, and with the, with the MSP finance team, discount as well, you’re like $10 a month give or take just to access. And on- once you– once you’re accessing, you can then buy or sell,
Matt: That’s right. That’s right. Yeah, your persona’s gonna change again depending on your need, depending on the day, depending on the situation. You could come to the marketplace at first to sell one or two or three contracts that you no longer want, but then you can take those funds and turn right around and purchase a contract.
So i- it’s, what is the need of the day depending [00:23:00] on, why you’re there. It could be to buy or to sell, yeah
Adam: And can I just double-check the pricing? You mentioned $149 a year.
Matt: Mm-hmm.
and then if I sell, like eBay, I don’t get a fee on top of that Yeah. So for the seller, it’s a great question. For the seller, it’s $149 for the year to have our general access plan. and then f- for the seller, there is a 7% commission fee that we take on the back end. For the buyer, the only fee that’s involved is, and it depends on the escrow amount, but it’s a 1 to 2%.
So it’s very small, but it’s just what escrow charges us to put that money in escrow. So, so yes, the $149 to get in for the year. For the seller, it’s gonna be a 7% commission that we take on the back end, and then for the buyer, there’s a small 1 to 2% escrow fee, again, depending on the dollar
Adam: it makes perfect sense. And 149 to get through the door to the auction room, and then if you,if you get your car sold or whatever it is, your [00:24:00] cattle sold,you pay your commission on that.
Matt: Yeah. And yeah, and then of course, when the ecosystem starts to really flourish and we’ve got, a lot of contracts in there to choose from, then we have that next tier, which is the premium first look access, which is $599 for the year. And what that does is that gives you an edge over everyone who just has the general access plan in the way that when a new contract is listed, everyone, that’s a member of the marketplace can see the contract, but for the first 36 hours, only the general– only the premium first look subscribers can actually click on it and make a buy now offer
Adam: Seems like you’ve almost thought this through
Matt: And a little bit of thought has gone into this over the last three years, yes. And there’s still more tweaks to be made. I mean, there, there are more improvements and revisions and things we would like to see moving forward, and we will get to that, version, as, as soon as the ecosystem’s,revenue will allow us to[00:25:00]
Daniel: And to, to, today we’re talking about,the US, the UK,or is this globally unrestricted?
Matt: Yeah, it’s globally unrestricted, although, of course, the focus is primarily the North America,and, UK. ANZ, we’ve started to try to do some marketing into that area as well. but yeah, the… We have, just under 100 subscribers, currently, and the majority of those, I’d say maybe 75% or so, are North America, so US and Canada.
And then the other remaining percentage is going to be places like the UK, ANZ, and I believe we have a few in Ireland and,Asia-Pacific, I believe. I mean, I don’t have the map in front of me, but, general breakdown is that, yes. So we would like to see clearly that same amount of participation from the UK, from, ANZ, and other locations throughout the world as well, yes.
But, obviously, once it gets proven out and really starts to take root [00:26:00] in North America alone, I think that’s going to be a big boon, for the awareness of the marketplace. And, we’ve seen that, with some of our Canadian subscribers, they’re not subscribing to necessarily pick up contracts in, in other provinces.
they’re picking up contracts or picking up– they are joining the marketplace to pick up contracts in America. They wanna move down into certain states in, in America. They’d like to have a, an Amer- some American clientele, and some of them, that’s all they want. So this really gives them the ability to buy into a market they’re not already in, so it’s strategic from a geographic location
Daniel: it’s exactly what I was thinking and I for a long time been talking about the internationalization of the MSP market as,the majority of,the vo- the volume of MSP would be the sort of SM- SME size business and actually they are now able to trade internationally with, far less friction than have been in the past.
So if their customers are [00:27:00] gonna be international, the MSP needs to be as well, and therefore I wanna open a US office. H- how am I gonna break into that market? Well, I go and buy some contracts.
Matt: There you go. Exactly. And because we’re seeing so many more distributed workforces, you can do that, right? Because if I don’t have to have boots on the ground to be at a physical location because your entire workforce is spread out all over the country, right? There is no office to go to. There is no router and switch and all that to have to maintain in an office because their office is everybody’s individual homes, right?
And there are a lot of businesses like this, and this allows an international MSP to take excellent care of a, of a small or medium-sized business that may not even be on the same continent. Because what difference does it make to them as long as they can manage the hour, the hour difference, the time zone difference, and still give them the same great level of care
Adam: and of course, the reverse is true as well. It could be that you had a geography outside of your nor-normal geography which worked for a [00:28:00] while. Maybe your engineering base moved on or something else happened. You no, you don’t, you no longer want that geography. So this is a perfect example, again, why you may say, “Do you know what?
I’ve got five or six clients over there in LA, but we’re based in New York. it’s not feasible or we’re not interested in that market over there now, so we’re going to sell that piece off.” or it could even be international, of course. So yeah, that, that makes sense both
Matt: Yeah. It absolutely works. Yes.
Daniel: really good. so, so some, somehow,we didn’t get to all of my eight- 8,000 questions as expected.
Matt: answered anyway.
Daniel: and we’re pretty much…
Matt: two in the future,
Daniel: Yeah,we’re pretty much on time. But,it, this is the part of our regular podcast where we offer a shameless plug to our guest.
a- and although I think we’ve probably already done that a little bit,h- how best to carry on the conversation?
Matt: Yeah. so mspx.store is where you’ll hit our landing page. There’s some videos there. we have a great help section, a resource section, a free contract valuation [00:29:00] calculator. So if you’re even thinking about selling a contract and you wanna know how much it might be worth, you go through our free contract, evaluation calculator.
It’ll spit out a range at the end, and that’s where you can kinda start to get an idea of if you join the marketplace, what you could list that contract for. And then, of course, if you wanna get ahold of us, our contact information is on the website. but I am, matt@mspx.store
Daniel: Super. Matt, thank you ever so much for your time. been a pleasure talking to you, and I’m sure we’ll be talking again very soon
Matt: Absolutely. Thank you both so much
Adam: Thank you
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