Join us as we chat with Justin Esgar about the ACEs Conference, an event designed to help MSPs (Managed Service Providers) grow their businesses with a focus beyond just technological skills. Justin shares his journey in founding the conference, designed originally for Apple consultants but open to all. He talks about the unique business-oriented aspects of the conference, the importance of non-technical skills, and the vibrant community it nurtures. Additionally, he discusses the scholarship in honour of his late father and hints at future plans for geographical expansion. The conversation also touches on some lighter notes, such as Justin’s potential guest-hosting role and his enthusiasm for British television.
00:00 Introduction and Welcoming Justin
00:19 Practicing the Podcast Introduction
01:20 Discussing the ACEs Conference
04:13 The Unique Focus of ACEs Conference
04:59 History and Evolution of ACEs Conference
06:25 Business Growth and Success Stories
11:06 Employee Development and Training
16:59 Challenges and Differences in Conference Attendance
23:02 Honouring a Legacy: The Edward Esgar Scholarship
24:37 Final Thoughts and Farewell
Listen on Spotify or Apple Podcasts
Connect with Justin Esgar on LinkedIn by clicking here – https://www.linkedin.com/in/justinesgar/
Connect with Daniel Welling on LinkedIn by clicking here – https://www.linkedin.com/in/danielwelling/
Connect with Adam Morris on LinkedIn by clicking here – https://www.linkedin.com/in/adamcmorris/
Visit The MSP Finance Team website, simply click here –https://www.mspfinanceteam.com/
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We look forward to catching up with you on the next one. Stay tuned!
Transcript
Daniel: Justin, welcome to the show.
Justin: Oh, thank you so much, Dan. Happy to be here.
Daniel: And you might be here again in the future as a guest host, having having just discovered that, that ambition and when when Adam and I are on holiday ho hopefully separate holidays we’d we’d love to have you have you do that for us. So.
Justin: Can I practice? Can I practice? Everybody? What’s up everybody? Welcome to, it’s a Numbers Game with Adam and Dan, some music there, or something like that. I don’t know. It’s literally how I start every podcast that I do. And so I’ve kind of like cultivated like a little bit of a brand with like, what’s up everybody?
I don’t know why I started doing that one day, but. Every show that I either host or if I can guest on, I will try to usurp their show and do it to them.
Adam: with this, Justin, is you’re showing too much personality here.
Justin: I’m sorry. I’ll do it better.
Adam: you know, we don’t like to actually, you know, encourage anyone to.
Justin: I have to be very stoic. Is that what you want? Hello everybody. Welcome to, it’s a Numbers Game with Adam and Dan. Is that better? Yeah. Okay.
Daniel: Yeah. Yeah.
And, and,
Justin: I think in a former life I used to be a radio personality.
Daniel: I I think it could be another one of the numerous careers that you could have. Absolutely. You’re a natural for sure.
Justin: Yeah. Thank you very much. Well, thanks for having me, guys. I’m very happy to be here. I.
Daniel: And so we wanted to invite you on the on the show to talk about your ACEs conference, which we’ll come to in, in just a minute. One, one of the things I was. Really pleased with myself though. When we were talking about your conference was when I went to check out the travel arrangements and realized that the Minneapolis airport code is MSP,
and I thought, how, how insightful am I?
And then I went to the website and realized it says it right at the bottom.
Justin: Is we put it in as like a little as a little like Easter egg. At the bottom of the page it says, do you know that the Minneapolis airport is MSP? I didn’t. Someone told me that also, and I didn’t know because the c the conference travels. We don’t stay in the same place ever, which if you ever organize conferences, you’ll know is the worst possible idea, but whatever.
And someone told me that one time and I was like, oh, I have to find a way to like slip that in there. And so I had it, it was actually above the fold and I was like, this is unnecessary. So I moved it all the way to the bottom, like a Marvel movie post credit scene.
Daniel: And yeah you’ve inspired us
to perhaps have a, have an event ourselves there at some point in the future, or Certainly it’s part of our journey to to discovering the the US community. But tell us a little bit about the origins of the events and what if I’m if I’m a UK MSP specifically in the Mac world why should I come?
Justin: Yeah. Thanks so much. So, so. You don’t have to be an, just put this out there. You don’t have to be an Apple consultant to, to come to ACEs conference. You can be a Windows based MSP. The reason it’s targeted towards Apple Consultants is because I’m an Apple consultant and I know these people, and so when I started doing the conference, and I’ll get to the history in a sec, it was very much, let me target, let me get the ICP, my ideal client profile.
Was people I knew, and the easiest way for me to get ticket sales was for me to go hey Adam, real quick, man. What are you doing in May, why don’t you come check out this conference I’m putting on, you know what I mean? Because I would’ve been friends with Adam and known him through the magic that is the app.
What was the Apple Consultants Network? It’s now called the Apple Partner Network, which is the, I think, in my opinion, the one major leverage point that. Apple MSPs have over PC MSPs is that there is a program from Apple directly that we are all members of. And being those members, we’ve, there’s that community already, very technical minded, very like, how do I fix this thing?
Whatever. And that has allowed me to like cultivate these relationships through my Apple MSP over the last 17 years. So when I started the conference, we’re going into our 12th year now. So we started in 2015 that I was able to just like hit up people I knew, right? And I needed speakers. And so I was like, well, I don’t know anyone, so let me just hit up everybody I know.
And that’s what started this whole thing in whatever. It’s, so the conference isn’t just about Apple ’cause it’s very business focused. We’re the act, we’re actually the only business only. Focused conference that I know of. Even in the PC space, I’ve been to a lot of the PC MSP conferences and you may get a guy who comes up and talks about marketing or management, but then you get swar with 10 people telling you that they’re gonna protect your Office 365 from cyber threats and you’re like, I don’t need this today.
I already have someone who’s doing that. We don’t allow any of that. There’s no pitching at our event. There’s no sales on stage. Anyone who’s a sponsor who speaks, is not allowed to talk about their product either. They have to talk about something. That the attendees can take home and use, whether they use their product or not.
So we’re very business focused. Okay, so history. How did this happen? I started my company in 2008, Virtua. I was already working for an for apple consultant. But prior, from 2004 and 2005, he sold his business to a local ISP. They had a Mac department. They didn’t like us. They didn’t care about us.
Inevitably, whoever became manager of the Mac department got fired. 2008, it was my turn. I got fired. I started my business. I ran my business the way my old boss did. And to be honest, he was a terrible boss. My paychecks would bounce. He would yell at customers like it was garbage. So I started going to these Apple conferences that had existed at that time, and they were all very technical focused.
Here’s how you deploy a printer to 400 computers with a terminal command. And I was like, I don’t need this. And I started asking around to the people that were there like, Hey, what do you do for ticketing? And like, what do you do for billing? And like, how do you manage documentation?
And no one had the same answer, let alone a good answer. And so it was very obvious to me that there was a market here to teach business. Tools to these companies because I’m an entrepreneur first and a technologist second. That’s my differentiator. Many MSPs are in the business because they were good at technology.
I’m good at technology, therefore I’ll start a technology business. But they forget to wear the other hats in running a business, marketing, sales, management, all those things. So that’s what ACEs started to be. It was about growing your business. Now, if you whisp away all of the other fluff, it’s how do you make more money?
That’s all it is. How do you make more money? I have great stories. I have a guy who comes, I think it was year three, I interviewed him and he was like, prior to ACEs, I was in business for two years and I was in the red 19 outta 24 months ever since my first ACEs never been in the red again. I’m like, beautiful, 10 outta 10, no notes.
Love it. That’s what I want to hear. And so that’s what that target has always been. And if it’s topics around. What to sell, how to sell marketing. We actually bring a couple professional development people up. Melanie Curtis, who runs our ACEs mastermind program, she’s a world profe, she’s a world record, skydiver and a business coach.
Sideline for transparency. She’s my business coach and actually we hire her to be the business coach for anyone on my team as a benefit. Yeah, she comes and talks about like pushing past your boundaries. Not last year, two years ago we were in Salt Lake City. We had Sean Spencer, who’s coming back for Min for Minneapolis.
He’s in a he’s an Olympian and he’s coming and he’s speaking about like getting off your ass and doing things right. The what stops MSPs from growing their business is not which PSA they should be using. It’s can you maximize its efficiency and then go do something with it, right? Too many MSPs are busy, like changing tools every other day because they see a shiny thing over there and they want to go buy that again.
You already have Office 365 security. You already have a cybersecurity suite. You’re already doing compliance. What makes Company X better than company y? Right, just because they gave you Legos at a conference, ’cause you gave ’em your business card, like big effing deal. So it has become a thing to really push the consultants further.
Now, the funny part about this, in my opinion, there are 40,000 MSPs in the United States about, there were only 350 registered. Apple Partners in the consultants program that as of two years ago, we get roughly 80 to 90 of them to come to the conference. So I’m getting a quarter of these Apple consultants coming Now, the other three quarters, not to say that they’re bad, but like I know them, some of them are doing great, they don’t need the conference.
Wonderful. Good for you. But all the other ones are always struggling and they’re always asking questions and I’m like, just come to the conference. Like I’m showing you the an I’m giving you the answers. Like just get on a plane and learn. So yeah that’s what the conference is. It’s about growing your, it’s about growing your MSP.
None of the topics are Apple focused either. They’re very generic. In fact I’ve figured out like a couple years ago, and I’ve never been able to actually make this happen. I could take 98% of the content that we’ve done in the 12 years and replaced. Apple consultant with doctor, lawyer, plumber, and it will still resonate with those people, right?
How to sell, how to exit your business, how to make your business more profitable, how to sell more stuff, how to get more clients, how to. Do social, how to communicate, how to get more speaking gigs. I think we have someone coming this year who’s gonna talk about branding and being able to become a professional speaker, which is awesome.
That’s something that we’ve never done as a topic. Like it’s these topics to help you grow. And they’re not Apple focused. The website is, but that’s only because those are my people. But if you’re a PC MSP, and we’ve had PC MSPs come before, buy ticket, come check us out. That’s it. Good episode. Good job guys.
Wrap it up. Put a bow on it.
Daniel: And breathe. Really interesting the last point you were talking about there. And for professional speaking, I’ve been in the Toastmasters program for five years.
Adam’s a as Adam’s, a former former participant as well. And I’m writing a speech at the moment, which talks exactly to your point where I’m describing how. The typical MSP owner, but could be an accountant, solicitor, a business coach who is a technician delivering a professional managed service, has to then go through the process of becoming a sales person, a leader, and a shareholder in their business, and. Leaving behind the technician
that, uh, that ironically is the reason they’re there at the beginning.
But but yeah, really a really interesting topic and I’m really disappointed that I can’t now come to the come to the
Justin: You can. I saw your reason why you can’t. You can still make it. It’s funny though, you bring that up. ’cause this is the first year we’re trying something new. I always like to push the envelope with it this year. We’re actually opening, we’re doing a, one of the two days we’re gonna do a split track and we’re inviting 30 of our attendees to bring an employee.
And we’re gonna do an employee track to teach those technicians how to be better at their job, how to not, how to deal with ticket overload how to spot opportunities within tickets. How to talk to your manager, like a big kid instead of asking for, you know, a having a mental health. I mean, I’m all about mental health, but you know what I’m saying?
Like those things. So we’re actually trying this out. ’cause normally it’s single track, everybody in a room. But this time we’re gonna try to do a split off for some of the employees. ’cause we want those future. Because eventually they’re gonna grow out of being an employee, a technician. They’re gonna want to start their own consultancy if they like this industry.
And that’s how all the consultants got into the first place. So we’re trying to grow them up also. It’s funny that you mentioned that, but I still think you can make it. I still think you can do it. There’s, we’ll figure it out.
Adam: it’s just interesting that strand you’re looking at there about spitting out into a different not decision maker, but different avatar in those MSPs. And I’ve certainly seen that work very well in other peer groups or events especially where. got the, you know, the context of an owner as an island lonely,
Justin: Mm-hmm.
Adam: maybe with a leadership team around him and the leadership team or employees.
Maybe they’ve got some sort of incentive, but they’re not shareholders.
Justin: Yeah.
Adam: they’re, and then you’ve got, you know, the guys on the desk as well. But all of these people play critical roles in this business. And often the owner doesn’t know how to communicate. What he’s facing, what he’s dealing with. And likewise, the leadership team and the employees dunno how to communicate the same because there’s some kind of unwritten rule, right? Hovering over this about status and about organizational structures and things like that. So, so coming to an event like this where you are looking at educating and sharing and talking about things that you wouldn’t normally talk about, I think it’s fantastic.
I think it’s really good idea.
Justin: Thank you very much. Yeah, I mean, I have that in my own business, right? Like I have a leadership team. I have three directors who report to me, and I’ve said to them on numerous occasions, don’t hold back. Like, I think that’s a big thing because there is that status, right? I’m the owner and therefore no one wants to piss me off because they’re afraid that if they piss me off, I’m gonna fire them.
I’ve never once fired anyone on my team in 17 years because an employee has pissed me off. I’ve gone and bitched to my wife about it, but like, I’ve never pulled the trigger on that. And I want my employees, I’m a big believer in ownership. I’m like, take ownership of the prom. Run with it. So like, here’s a great example.
One of my, we have a new client in Des Moines, Iowa, and I got a team in Columbia, Missouri, and they went up to Des Moines this week and they went and they onboarded them. And I said to the guy, I said, how’d it go? And he goes, great. I go, perfect. They’re now your client. You deal with them like I’m giving the ownership to them to deal with this particular customer.
I was like, I don’t even want to hear from them. If I have to hear from them, obviously something’s wrong and like, you need my expertise, fine, but I’m trying to. Push my team to take ownership of these problems. And I find that, especially in our industry, and you can track this through documentation as well, I’ll show you in a second that the buck always stops with the owner.
Sure. But the knowledge also seems to be locked by the owner, and that’s proven by the fact that owners never document anything, and I a hundred percent am guilty of this. Right. So like my team will be like, how do I do this thing? And I’m like, how do you not know how to do this thing? I’ve known how to do this thing for years.
I’ve never told them how to do the thing, man. So like, I’m like, let’s get on Zoom, let’s record something, and then you go write a document and come back to me. It’s the buyback your time method from Dan Rotel. And that works. But like, it’s, you gotta get to that point. And in order to let your employees have ownership or take ownership of problems, you have to be able to unlock that knowledge and trust your team enough to say, I believe that you can handle this.
And I’m giving you all of the keys to all of the kingdoms. Good luck. And so I’m trying, one of the things with the conference, one of the employee tracks, is we wanna be able to have employees be able to go talk to their managers about that thing. Because I feel like a lot of employees are still afraid because there’s that status level.
Like I, I’m, I shouldn’t talk back to the owner ’cause who the hell am I? You’re an adult.
Adam: That’s probably not, possibly not being had the commercial conversation. so, you know, what sort of money is the business making? does it wanna make?
Justin: Yeah.
Adam: What’s stopping it? Make that. What, what’s the role of that leader or that employee in making that money? You know, it just needs to be an open conversation, I think. And not something that’s often swept under the carpet as a difficult subject.
Justin: There’s also that level of like, there’s a break point between like micromanagement. Right to like keeping hand and but so many of us really wanna say that the options are micromanagement or completely hands off laissez-faire and there’s nothing in between. And that’s obviously not true. As an entrepreneur, we look up to people, you know, that are running multi-billion dollar companies.
Okay? If Noah Kagan from App Sumo does a video and he is like, how I run a multi-million dollar business with only two meetings a week, like, that’s a bullshit video. Like, that’s not how it works in real life in real companies. No offense to Noah like, don’t work like that. Or better yet, small companies don’t work like that.
Like Noah’s put years into it. Your MSP of three people can’t do that. I’m an MSP of 11 people, and I can only do it maybe one day a week is like not be involved. Not because I have to be, but because like I have to be, you know? So there’s that.
Daniel: And uh, it sounds like there there’s almost no, no difference at all between Mac and pc. US and UK based businesses from what we’ve talked about so far have you had attendees from the uk and what what differences have been observed or noted so far?
Justin: So I don’t think we’ve had any attendees from the UK specifically. I have we have someone who comes from Australia, Mike Thompson from Origin84 comes every year. My good friend Fred, who comes to the French Alps. He’s been coming the last couple years. We’ve hired someone from South Africa one time.
And a lot of Canadians. We have a lot of Canadians who come. I, it’s funny because I wanted to do pre COVID. I had this brilliant idea to do ACEs Europe and ACEs at sea. I wanted to do a, I wanted to have everyone on a cruise ship, which in like retrospect, like nobody wants to do a half a day learning and then see each other without our shirts on for the other half of the day on the pool deck.
So like that idea was just yuck. But. ACEs Europe. After, after, I’ll say after the pandemic. I started doing research and I started reaching out to the Apple consultants in all over Europe. And I find that, and maybe I’m wrong, and I would be I’d love to be proven wrong, you guys don’t like to travel the way Americans do to a different location for a conference.
So like everyone I interviewed in UK was like, I would do it if it’s. Near me in the uk. Like people in North UK don’t even want to come to London, let alone Paris. Right. But I’ve had the conference in New Orleans, Austin, Phoenix, Baltimore, Kansas City, Salt Lake City, and then we went back to Austin and this year in Minneapolis, and I’ve had people come.
No matter where the conference is. So I don’t know why y’all are against travel for whatever reason. But I think that’s like the biggest piece of it. And again, maybe I’m wrong, maybe I’m just interviewing the wrong people, right? Like, I don’t know. I, again, I would love to do ACEs Europe, just for an excuse to, I love the uk.
I watch so much British television. Taskmaster is my favorite show of all time. All time.
Adam: Never heard of it.
Justin: Are you serious?
Adam: Task master.
No.
Justin: please tell me. Dan, please tell me he’s messed something.
Adam: it on?
Justin: It used to be on Dave and now it’s on Channel four.
Adam: Well,
Daniel: Yeah.
Justin: Greg Davis, Alex Horn. Alright, that’s it. This podcast is I’m literally leaving. I love this show so much that I’ve watched all.
Adam: about, but I’ve never watched it.
Justin: I’ve watched 20 seasons of the show and I actually play it with my friends here in New Jersey.
I like, I am the assistant, my wife is the task master, and we do this whole thing.
Adam: it?
Justin: Yes,
Adam: Okay. Alright. I’ll have to see about that.
Justin: by the way, for anyone who’s listening, there’s not gonna be any new episodes for the next four months because Adam is gonna be stuck watching 20 seasons of Taskmaster Plus the New Year’s treats. Oh my God. Seriously. Jimmy Carr. I love Jimmy Carr. Watch. 8 out of 10 Cats. I love the uk. That’s my point.
But you guys don’t like travel to get back to Dan’s question.
Adam: task.
Justin: No, it’s very different. It’s very different comedy. This is for different, we’ll do another show. We’ll do another show about this.
Daniel: This sounds like a, an after conference over a beer type discussion.
Justin: It is the numbers game After Dark and it’s just gonna be me and Adam watching Taskmaster and like discussing it. It’s a numbers. Actually, you know what’s funny? There’s an entire podcast called the Taskmasters People Podcast. There’s a guy named Jack, I don’t know what his last name is, and he does stats.
It’s called Jack Stats. It’s all the numbers. He keeps track of all the numbers about all the contestants. If you like numbers, Jack Stats.
Daniel: Adam is in shock right now, so, I shall.
Adam: trying to work out what it is.
Daniel: I shall respond to your question about u UK travellers and actually that there that there are, there, there are a group I’d say it’s a small group though that that do like to travel in particular attending some of the larger US conferences.
Kaseya and ConnectWise,
uh, in particular. But but yeah, I think you’re right. My my impression is of of the US that it is more more accepted to, to travel because generally there are, there’s a lot, you gotta travel a lot to, to get around the us whereas the uk not so much, but
Yeah.
I, I’m pretty sure there would be an appetite and, when we were introduced as a result of of MSP’s networking and and talk, talking together we you know, I didn’t know of this event and until then, so that was, you know, part of the reason why I, it sounds really interesting and and actually I think some in the UK would be interested in attending.
So. And certainly Adam and I would be very happy to welcome you to to the UK when you travel here and go on your tv your favourite TV show tour of the uk.
Justin: That’d be great. I I did just get denied. I spoke at IT Nation in Orlando a couple weeks ago and I did just get denied for IT Nation Europe. So if anyone knows Jessica Dimmitt over there, you can be like, no, we want Justin, make it happen then I have an excuse to come to London. Yeah, I mean, we wanna make it, we wanna make it access accessible to everybody.
And you know, we keep the price as low as we can possibly keep it. It’s a two day, it’s two full days. All meals included. Breakfast, lunch and dinner both days, or sorry one of the days. And then breakfast, lunch, the next day. Snacks, no vendor talk, but there is plenty of time to speak to vendors.
The vendors that are there very in tune with the network. You know, added in the past we’ve had Addigy, Backblaze, DriveSavers I’m trying to remember what the Jamf, Pax8, Dropbox. We’ve had a lot of the big names come through to be a sponsors and we’re gonna be announcing all of our, I don’t know when this is dropping, but we’re gonna be announcing the new, the first lineup of speakers in this first lineup of sponsors in January and.
They’re there and it’s very focused on that. The other piece that we did, and I just wanna mention this real quick. So my dad passed away in November of 2024, and he was a big part of the conference. He, every year my parents would come and my dad would be on the ground helping me, like tape electrical cables down so that way people could have power at the tables.
And there was one year he came to my house and I was like I literally had like a beautiful mind moment. I was like drawing all over my windows, like how I’m gonna lay out the HDMI cables to make everything work. And he was like. He couldn’t, he didn’t understand anything I was saying, but he was like really into it.
He was trying to help me out and doing all these things. And unfortunately he passed away in November of 2024. So we launched the Edward Esgar scholarship. Where for, a new consultant to the conference will pay for domestic or we say free flight, but it’s up to a thousand dollars.
We’ll cover your hotel and the ticket to come, and that’s in a, you apply online, that’s right there on the website. We implore people to come check it out. You get a possibility for a free chance to come to the show and learn. But, you know, we’ve always wanted to honour my dad in that regards for the show.
So, yeah, it’s been really special to me and my family. But like. Last year, Pat Dengler from Dengler Consulting in LA won and it was great. And she, it was her first time coming and she’s like, this is the greatest thing. Like, I’m like, perfect. That’s what it’s about. It’s two full days.
It’s real world work and you know, and like I said, it’s it, you’re not coming there to learn terminal commands or how to do MDM or how to play with Intune or any of those things. You can talk to the vendors about that stuff, but the stuff that’s on stage is going to be. Very poignant to growing your business.
That’s it.
Daniel: normally at this point in the episode, I would off offer you a shameless plug, but actually I think the call to action here is certainly to our UK listeners who probably, well, who won’t have attended would be to to, to perhaps check out the the scholarship option and, and I think that’s yeah. Really nice thing for you to do. And yes,
uh, as I say, sounds like a real really nice event. And if I’m gonna go away and I’m gonna, I’m gonna think, I’m gonna check the diary, the travel time, the what happens if if I’m delayed at at a racetrack, can I still get there? So, so yeah. And yeah, I mean, it’s just been really nice talking to you today. Adam, any final thoughts?
Adam: Uh, well, I clearly, I’ve had my knuckles wrapped on my TV watching habits, so I’ve gotta go away and do some research on that. It’s not a game show. Is it a game show?
Justin: It is a panel show.
Adam: Okay. Okay. I’ll see.
Justin: I would love for just all the listeners to hook into this one for a second. I would love for Adam to come to ACEs next year and do a presentation on what I learned on how to grow my MSP from watching 20 seasons of Task Master.
Adam: got it. It’s in the calendar now. I’m gonna put it in now.
Daniel: It,
Justin: I know there’s no video, but he looks, you look so disappointed at me right now.
Daniel: The thing that would clinch this would be for you to say, yes, Daniel. There is a golf course nearby as well.
Adam: yes. Well, there’s golf courses everywhere, even up there.
Justin: I am sure. Alright, so I’m not, I am not a golf player in any way, shape or form. My two best friends here in New Jersey are, and I’ve promised myself that I would go take golf lessons and get really good without them knowing. And then ask if I can go on one of the golf trips with them, kick their butts, and then be like, well, I guess I mastered that and never do it ever again.
Daniel: Mic drop.
Justin: Mic drop. Walk off the green, drive off the green in my golf cart and be like, bye. And just like leave and never have to do it.
Adam: you know, a couple of lessons. You get really good at golf. It’s that easy. So yeah,
Justin: Yeah,
Adam: that obviously.
Justin: it’s just a numbers game. See
Daniel: Definitely.
Justin: I brought it back for you guys. I brought it back for
Daniel: Definitely coming back. Definitely coming back. Justin, it’s been yeah, really interesting talking to you. Thank you ever so much for your time and maybe see you in May.
Justin: Yes. Thank you very much gentlemen. Much appreciated. Come check us out https://acesconf.com/ and hopefully we’ll see everybody in May. That’ll be awesome.