In this episode, Devin returns to discuss the value and strategies of podcast advertising for Managed Service Providers (MSPs). The conversation explores how podcast advertising draws parallels with traditional radio advertising and how it serves as a viable brand awareness tool amid the challenges of digital advertising attribution. Devin highlights the importance of niche targeting and the evolution of buying ad slots in podcasts. The discussion also covers how MSPs can utilise shorter video content, the role of LinkedIn for B2B marketing, and the significance of leveraging word-of-mouth referrals and loyalty marketing. Additionally, insights are shared on the effective use of various marketing tools and strategies to build credibility and enhance referral marketing for MSPs.
00:00 Welcome Back, Devin!
00:49 The Rise of Podcast Advertising
04:17 Choosing the Right Podcasts for MSPs
11:37 Maximizing Podcast Content
13:37 The Power of Short-Form Video
18:35 Leveraging LinkedIn for MSP Marketing
21:41 The Importance of Referral Marketing
28:41 Concluding Thoughts and Shameless Plugs
Listen on Spotify or Apple Podcasts
Connect with Devin Rose on LinkedIn by clicking here –https://www.linkedin.com/in/mrdevinrose
Connect with Daniel Welling on LinkedIn by clicking here – https://www.linkedin.com/in/daniel-welling-54659715/
Connect with Adam Morris on LinkedIn by clicking here – linkedin.com/in/adamcmorris
Visit The MSP Finance Team website, simply click here – https://www.mspfinanceteam.com/
We look forward to catching up with you on the next one. Stay tuned!
Transcript
Daniel: [00:00:00] Devin, welcome back to the show.
Devin: Thanks for having me. Really appreciate you guys connecting with me again. Looking forward to talking to you today.
Daniel: So you very kindly shared some great insights with us, last time, and then. By me it must be three or four months since I read a blog on your website about podcast advertising as a tactic for MSPs to to employ which which is really interesting and linked to another.
Conversation at the time around MSPs actually producing their own podcast. And re really interested to to dive into this topic with you today and then perhaps even broaden more broadly, consider what what other tactics MSPs are. Perhaps not commonly using at the moment. So, PR perhaps you could kick us off with just a summary about the podcast advertising topic, first of all, and then we’ll go from there.
Devin: Yeah, I’d be happy to. And you know, [00:01:00] podcast advertising is an interesting one because it’s relatively new. But at the same time it kind of hearkens back to some old school marketing tactics. Like the most comparable tactic would probably be radio advertising, right. Um, and. We kind of saw like a lot of advertisers in move away from old school tactics. And, but I think we’re seeing a little bit of a renaissance with those sorts of tactics these days. The reason being is that it’s getting harder and harder to measure and attribute success to digital. Campaigns mostly because the, there’s, you know, increased security tools, which isn’t necessarily a bad thing, security and privacy. But like getting attribution metrics from something like Google Analytics just isn’t as accurate as it used to be. So if you’re doing like some, you know, some display advertising, let’s say, or even Google Ads, advertising is really difficult to know what’s working. And something that what we’re seeing with our [00:02:00] clients is a lot of, even like form fills these days, the vast majority of form fills on MSP websites. They’re spam entries, you know, so it’s, it throws off your metrics even more your Google, you know, dashboard might say you had. 50 conversions the past month, but you don’t really know how many of those are legitimate unless you were to go through and reconcile with every single individual conversation that resulted from those. So It, I guess what I’m trying to say is this, it the, a lot of the digital tactics are murky these days and it’s providing incentive to return to these old school tactics. And I would almost throw podcast advertising in there as well. Because if you’re doing podcast advertising. You know, someone listens to your ad.
It, it’s hard to get a to get a, like, an idea of how effective that is in terms of tying it back to an ROI. And there are some things you can do, like you can, you know, promote a, let’s say a coupon code for, I dunno, your second month free or something like that [00:03:00] for an MSP signup. But realistically it, it’s more of a brand awareness play and people aren’t gonna necessarily convert right away from it.
It. Um, so it’s, it is an interesting space and there’s also platforms these days which allow you to buy like a portion of a show’s you know, advertising slots, which is nice. ’cause you know, when podcast advertising first came out, it was kind of all or nothing. You either advertised, you know, they were the primary advertisement for the show or you weren’t.
And nowadays you can buy a, just a slice of it and. Kind of target a certain geography as well. So you could buy, let’s say all the, um, you know, all the impressions, let’s for a particular geography where you’re operating. Um, so it’s an effective brand awareness play for MSPs that way, especially if you can find a show that ties into what your audience is interested in. Obviously some of the shows might be tied to it. But, you know, given that not all decision makers for MSPs are strictly in the, i, you [00:04:00] know, it. But, you know, realm themselves generally just whatever would appeal to business decision makers that the clientele that you’re trying to reach. So yeah it’s interesting. There’s a lot of opportunity there. There’s obviously a ton of podcasts out there and there’s no shortage of shows to advertise on.
Adam: And Devin. Then just along this theme, you know, there are literally millions of podcasts out there. And if you are looking to and triangulate into, you know, what might be the most appropriate podcasts to, to invest in this presumably is where sector specialization and niching comes in, so that they’re tied to the niche.
The tighter the podcast fit you can choose for that niche presumably. I was speaking to someone the other day about private schools. They work purely with private schools, not public schools in any way. So I’m assuming there’s some podcasts out there for the private school community.
That might be an example of where it makes sense.
Devin: [00:05:00] Yeah, for sure. And there’s a trade off, right? The more niche the podcast is, obviously the more the audience is gonna be limited to. But for something like, let’s say you’re an MSP that offers it for private schools, not example I. It. Are you offering it nationwide or is it just for your specific geography? Because if you know the broader that you’re looking to target then, you know, I think the fact that there’s a smaller audience matters less. It, you know, it just is kind of. It just opens things up and makes it so there’s more decision makers potentially listening to that podcast who you’re actually looking to speak to. If you get too narrow in terms of who you’re trying to target then there’s just not gonna be a sufficient audience. But some, you know, some other like types of podcasts that you know are, would be appealing to MSPs. is is some cities, especially larger cities, will have a podcast about new business developments.
Like new building office buildings that are being built in the city you know, construction projects on the horizon, things like that. That’s an interesting [00:06:00] one because you can kind of get in the door and set up the it for those offices you know, and get awareness of the decision makers in that industry before anyone else can. So that, that is an attractive one. And also some cities will have. FA podcast specifically about the IT landscape of that particular city which is a good option as well.
Daniel: So many questions. Like I’m not sure what order to fire these at you in, so, t tell me a little bit about how you how you go about identifying these podcasts and by like, is there a marketplace for, I wanna target. Certain region, vertical. And you talked about being able to buy advert space?
Devin: Yeah, so for the smaller ones, generally speaking, it would be a matter of reaching out directly to the podcast it being their primary sponsor.
Um. You know, I mean, a lot of podcasts don’t have sponsors, so
Kind of go in there and scoop it up [00:07:00] and probably get a relative bargain. I mean, they would be happy with whatever they can get, essentially. But for, you know, medium or larger sized podcasts, there’s just a ton of different platforms out there these days. I think you can do it even through Spotify, but there’s other ones as well out there. Numerous platforms that podcasts are on. So it’s certainly a space that has you know, developed over time. And, you know, through those platforms you can typically select what sort of advertisement you want. Is it one that plays at the beginning of the episode? At the end of the episode in between How long is it? Is it your own ad or is it the host doing a read. My I think the best ones are when the host does their own read personally. You know, it adds a lot of credibility to, you know, to the advertiser. So that, that’s my preference. I.
Daniel: And this will be the point in this episode where Adam edits in our advert.
Adam: Or will it? Or will it maybe I’ll put it somewhere else. [00:08:00] keep the listeners on their toes.
There is there a direct correlation between listener, audience size and cost, or is it more.
Devin: Yes. Yeah. Typically, I. Yeah. So most for the medium and larger sized podcasts, the ads are charged on a per thousand downloads basis. It does go back to my point earlier about how some of the metrics are a little bit murky in, in, in this space though. ’cause a thousand downloads doesn’t necessarily mean a thousand listens. Like, for instance, I, you know, I have my own, you know. Podcast app on my phone and I subscribe to, I dunno, several dozen podcasts. I certainly don’t listen to them all, so, so, you know, there’s there’s not the best metrics there. But, and then for the smaller ones it would typically be more of a flat rate that you’re paying for. Um, but yeah, it does typically you know, depend on the size of the audience.
Daniel: And of course the free of cash option with some of these podcasts. The smaller [00:09:00] ones even maybe some of the medium sized ones is to is to actually approach as a guest rather than an appetizer. If you’ve. If you’ve content that you can offer value that you can bring to the host of the podcast.
Devin: Yeah, for sure. Like the one that comes to mind for me is, I don’t know if you guys are familiar with the Risky Business Podcast. It’s a cybersecurity podcast. Pretty popular. I. And I listen to it, but a lot of it’s just over my head. So I’m not the most technical guy, but they have a lot of interesting current events that are happening about, you know, things like ransomware and different hacks that are currently ongoing.
And their advertisers come on and are guests, but they essentially get grilled by the hosts. You know, the hosts are. Approaching it from a very critical eye and trying to find almost the flaws in the product of service that’s being advertised which is an interesting approach. But, you know, I’m sure you guys are aware, having, you know, you guys work with a lot of MSPs and. A lot of decision makers in the IT space are very skeptical of [00:10:00] advertising. So it’s an interesting approach ’cause they’re kinda leaning into that and saying you know, let’s come at this from a critical eye just like our you know, audience would and have guests on, but don’t necessarily present them in the most favorable light.
If anything interrogated as a guest. So, yeah, there’s lots of different approaches, but I think, you know, if you can become a guest on a podcast, that certainly goes a long way.
Daniel: And you are suggesting that maybe in that case a podcast aimed at MSPs should generally be that more skeptical edginess and, but but a podcast perhaps aimed at an MSP’s target clients could be different, or indeed, advertising might be a. a. more acceptable method.
Devin: Yeah, I would say so. You know, I think those involved in the IT industry are a little bit of a unique case and, you know, they’re, I’ve heard it express that they’re allergic to advertising. I don’t think that applies more broadly to like an [00:11:00] MSBs customer base.
So yeah I would agree with that.
Daniel: Okay. I mean, I’m an advertiser’s dream to be honest, because I’m very easily sucked into a, to a promotion or a, or selling a lifestyle. I’m like, yeah, brilliant. Shut up and take my money. But but yes if I was an ms, my MSP hat on, I probably would be, a little bit more skeptical.
So that’s quite, quite an interesting thought point. Adam tends to be our skeptic. So often Adam will throw in a
pretty,
Adam: It depends. It depends how much I like the guest or not.
Daniel: Yeah. Yeah. So,
So you, you liked Evan, right? You
Adam: Well, he’s okay at the moment but we’ll see how, we’ll see how things go. Devin you were talking earlier, briefly about taking that content for the podcast and putting clips on YouTube. So, so what are some of the other things you can do then about, if you are an ms an MSP out there, or a vendor out there putting out podcasts like ourself you know, how can we exploit the content more and make it work harder for ourselves?
Devin: Yeah, so [00:12:00] listen I’ll cite the the name of your guys’ show here. It’s a numbers game and I would encourage anyone who’s doing any advertising, or I should say, posting content on YouTube to go check your metrics for your YouTube videos. And this is a realisation that we had for our own YouTube videos. Recently where if you look at the metrics, there’s a pretty sharp drop off at around five to 10 minutes. Even 10 minutes is a bit bit long. Um, people these days just don’t have the attention span. And also just the time, right? I think a lot of times people who are going on YouTube, maybe they have five, 10 minutes between meetings or. You know, maybe they even just need a little bit of a brain break in between tasks. So you kind of need to cater to that sort of an audience and it proves out in the numbers. So, you know, I think to whatever degree possible, having options for people is great. If you, it’s fine to, you know, record longer form content and post it, that’s still valuable. But if you can [00:13:00] provide specific clips of that content and post those separately. You know, and make them a, I’d say five minutes should really be the target, to be honest. That is ideal. Or even just recording shorter form content. That is helpful too. Those are gonna be, you know, where you get more engagement and you know, we see this trend broadly too, right?
You know, look at to success of like TikTok for instance, and I’m not suggesting that. People start posting ten second clips in this space. But the general trend towards shorter form video being really popular is something that I think even B2B advertisers can consider when they’re doing their own marketing as well.
Adam: So, and, yeah, we’re talking now video, not just audio. Is that what you’re saying, Devin or are we good still just to do pure audio on these platforms?
Devin: So I, I think, yeah I think it, it probably applies less so with audio. Um, ’cause I, you know, just thinking of my own consumption of podcasts, quite often I put it on and then I have it, you know, going in the background and [00:14:00] I. Maybe I’m, you know, doing something else, doing the dishes, taking the garbage out or whatever. And it’s not like I’m so actively watching it, so I think for audio content, it’s a little bit more appropriate to have longer form. Um, but for video these days, yeah, I think shorter is definitely better. It’s where you’re gonna see more engagement.
Daniel: Yeah. I mean it’s spooky actually. I’m just looking at some, some stats for some video content that that I put on YouTube recently and I think you said five minutes and I’m seeing average viewing duration here. Yeah. 5 5 25 5 17. Which is yeah, generally about. 30% of the episode length.
So, and you know, that’s across you know, hundreds thousands of views. So there’s a, you know, I’d say there’s a good sample there. So it’s like you’re spot on, basically. We should just do everything at five, five minutes on video length. And actually this video in itself I’d already broken it down into smaller. Portions like multiple parts to make it easier to consume. [00:15:00] So, so that’s that’s interesting you say that.
Devin: Yeah, maybe you guys can choose the five minutes. That makes me look the best. That would be appreciated. And and I would also just say by the way, that like a nice thing to consider. With that insight about the five minute videos, is it kinda lowers the burden too for how much planning you have to do for a video. So like for, from an MSP’s perspective, like. Pick let’s say if you’re, you, rather than putting out a video that’s an hour long about cybersecurity essentials or something like that, narrow it down. Like talk about phishing, talk about, you know, ransomware or you know, incident response planning or whatever.
And try to narrow it down to a shorter duration. That’s on a smaller topic, smaller slice of the whole topic. And that’s where you’re gonna get more engagement.
Adam: And so. My bright brain has a habit of doing this. So it is gone off and started thinking of counterfactuals to this discussion and straightaway it’s sort of, Joe Rogan with his three hour podcasts, right? So we’ve got like, I dunno what his deal was worth with Spotify. Was it 80 million or [00:16:00] something like that?
So the huge audience is near the most popular podcaster out there right now. But he is got like really long three hour type podcasts. Clearly. Clearly working for that type of content. So what’s that saying? Is it saying that there’s always exceptions? And it’s, it is that you know, edge of the bell curve type thing.
Or it’s the type of guests he has or the type of topics. I’m just interested to know, yeah, while we’re talking. Well, it makes perfect sense to me why a five minute podcast would be more popular, but we do see these counter examples of these longer, more in depth podcasts as well.
Devin: Yeah. You know, I would, I think with a podcast like Joe Rogan, or excuse me, or any of these a more generalised podcasts. People are probably listening to them and like in their car, maybe when they’re at the gym when they do have more time to consume a longer form [00:17:00] show. But then if we look at like those, some same podcasts and what they do on YouTube when they’re they do post shorter clips. And those are the clips that, you know, get shared on social media and everything. And those might be the inroads for somebody to find that podcast, subscribe, and then listen to it on a go forward basis. So, you know, I think you can do both. I I would say though, that if you’re trying to target, I. Decision makers with your podcast, like business decision makers, you know, these people probably don’t have a ton of time. You know, they’re busy people. They, you know, so I, I think a three hour podcast is like, Joe Rogans is probably not feasible. But yeah, certainly you could do a longer form content, whether it’s in half an hour or an hour, and break it
Adam: And that makes sense. And actually just thinking about it these podcasts are. Very much around the connection that the listeners have with the host. It’s a very strong kind of, maybe celebrity’s not right [00:18:00] the right word, but these are famous people highly credible people. They have a kind of tribal you know, component to their followers.
So may maybe that’s, that is a different kind of a different kind of product essentially than a business focused. Podcast.
Daniel: Cer, certainly from my perspective I’m a lot more. Open to producing content that’s five minutes long rather than three hours long. I think that would be a barrier to to, to production. Let alone consumption. And and I guess one of the critical things you mentioned there was was was about, you know, these are business decision makers that we are hoping to reach.
So, that then brings us into something like LinkedIn, for example, and then using those snippet snippets on LinkedIn rather than just on YouTube.
Devin: Yeah, for sure. You know, LinkedIn, I have mixed feelings on LinkedIn. And I think most people who go on LinkedIn probably look at their feed and see a lot of fluff. I think that [00:19:00] probably goes without saying, uh, there’s a lot of. Things that are just not worthy of a lot of energy or time that are posted on LinkedIn. However, there’s no doubt that it is the largest social network used by by business people for business purposes. So I. It’s worthwhile being on there. I think if you’re going to the effort of recording, you know, webinars or podcasts, of course it’s great to, to get some additional eyeballs on there. LinkedIn can provide those additional eyeballs and you may as well post them on your LinkedIn profile. You know, having said that, I would have. Um, kind of lower expectations. When it comes to things like having measurable results you know, it’s unlikely that somebody is going to, you know, go on LinkedIn, see your content, and then end up being a customer. But what is more likely, and it’s valuable is if you’re an MSP, and let’s say you get a referral or you know, someone finds you from word of mouth. They’re probably gonna Google you. [00:20:00] They’re probably gonna try to check you out and vet you before they reach out. And having content on a platform like LinkedIn that’s easy to find is gonna add credibility during that process.
So it, it’s essentially gonna increase the conversion rate for the leads that you’re already getting, which is valuable in itself. But it’s I would just say that, you know, LinkedIn is unlikely to produce a lot of leads, but so it, it has a different role than that, but it can still be valuable.
Daniel: And that kind of takes us into the general conclusion that we often reach when we talk about individual marketing tactics, which is, this is a layered, concept rather than any one particular tactic. So, if you produce content, then it makes sense to release it on multiple channels and then to activate it in different ways.
So certainly our own experience recently we’ve added an active. Calling elements to our outreach program. And we and we [00:21:00] find connections between people that have listened to our podcast or medicine at an event. And then the phone call is what helps you know, n nudge, nudge the process along. Whereas if we were just making a call. Out of the blue and we were unknown and they didn’t know us there. There’d be no warming up. Then the call would almost be, you know, far less successful. But EE equally, if we just put post on LinkedIn once a year ago, that’s also gonna be unsuccessful.
But do all of these things re regularly and in some form of integration? And that’s the, is that the only conclusion that we can come to?
Devin: You know, I think that’s a pretty strong conclusion. And I think anyone who’s listening to this podcast who’s involved in the MSP space probably understands that advertising and marketing in this space is challenging. It’s not like consumer marketing where you could just spin up a, let’s say I go back to TikTok, like you could focus on your TikTok and, you know, sell your shoes or whatever your product you’re hawking. [00:22:00] Like, it really is multifaceted. I, and my advice would be, you know, most. Most MSPs get the majority of their leads from word of mouth and referrals. And I think that the initial kind of marketing priorities for an MSPs should be to try to enhance those leads. So, you know, simple things like, you know, for, especially for for one man shows, like one man shops rather try to get like nice uniforms.
Like that’s, you know, maybe not traditionally thought of as. As a marketing expense, but, you know, get some nice you know, golf shirts that make you look professional. So when you’re doing in-person meetings you know, networking events or whatever that, you know, you come across more credibly have a half decent website.
It doesn’t need to be like a, you know, earth shattering, but have a website that, you know, puts you forward as an expert. Have some content that’s specific to, uh, spec the industries that you wanna focus on. That, that’s another big thing is, you know, a lot of MSPs when they’re [00:23:00] starting out, take the attitude of, well, we can offer it services to any industry, but you should still pick three or four to focus in on and have content on your website.
So when people from those industries land on your website, you again, you come across credibly. And also making sure there’s a lot of social proof. So have testimonials on your website, have good Google reviews, have case studies for those particular industries you wanna focus in on, on, on your website. Like those are the sorts of things that are important. There is no silver bullet when it comes to marketing for MSBs. It’s about kind of building up the machinery.
Adam: And referral marketing is a core tactic that, I truly believe in and try and promote throughout the MSP community. In, in particular at least my experience, and I think it’s the same with others as well, is there’ll be two or three. Clients or individuals that work in clients that are top referrers.
Or it could be, you know, a partner, an accountant, or a solicitor or someone like that. But often it’s someone who’s had a di direct [00:24:00] experience of the services you provide. And every time they move to another company, they refer that company in. And sometimes they go widen that because they really like you and they look to refer you to, to, to some of their colleagues and referers and suppliers.
And I’ve had several instances of these examples with our mentoring and coaching clients. And my response to that is, so when was the last time you took them out for dinner? Oh. I, we never do that. Well, hang on a minute, let me get this straight. So, how many clients has this particular individual brought you in the last five years?
Oh, probably five or six. Right. So they are a major marketing strategy for you. What are you giving them? How are you looking after them? Have you know if they’re into football? Have you bought them tickets? To go and see the football. What is it you can do to truly look after them and kind of care for them and be top, top of mind with them because they’re the people that are most likely to continue to refer you.
So I, for me, I [00:25:00] think there’s there’s a lot of not to be set around reviewing where all your. Refer who your referrers are. Go through your whole list of customers who, who are the top people there that are referring you, and really think about how you can strategically lubricate that, that mechanism further and work on really building those strong relationships.
And yeah, send them, take them out for dinner, you know, whatever it is.
Devin: Yeah, I would agree. And you know, the marketing buzzword is loyalty marketing. And the general best approach for that is to focus on experiences, as you alluded to things like tickets, to events you know, you know that those are, that’s gonna be more effective than something that is you know, just like a tangible thing. Um. So that would be something that they, that if you can give that, that that lead that they might then brag about to their, you know, their friends or that, that sort of
thing, that, that will help even get the word
Adam: yeah or, the example that was given to me, I didn’t come up with this, was,
Devin: I
Adam: something that shows you [00:26:00] truly. Know them well or understand them. So not just like some voucher that you’ve got off Amazon or something for a meal out somewhere. You know, something that, you know, really kicks in, or ties in with some kind of hobby or some passion that they have.
Could be sport, could be anything else. You know, so if they’re inter wine, get them some really good wine or go for a really good wine tasting experience or something like that. Not just something from the local garage. You know, those kind of things, I think that sort of matter a lot more because they can feel that you are, you’ve gone out of your way here special efforts being made, and I think those things really matter.
Devin: I agree. And another point on that too is a lot of MSPs underestimate how much leads are worth to them. Um, you know, but if you’re signing someone up for a three year contract and, you know, and there’s monthly recurring revenue and you know, let’s say there’s like, you know. 50 people, I mean, in the organization, I mean, that, that lead is worth like, you know, literally hundreds of thousands of
dollars. So, so like, make [00:27:00] it something good. You know, I had one client who, it was a little bit of a different context ’cause he was trying to, he was doing a campaign and to try to attract new referral partners so it wasn’t existing people, but recognizing how much leads were worth. He was considering giving away a car.
As like a contest and like, it seems kind of, you know, like, you know, outlandish maybe. But you know, when you consider the value of the leads that are coming in, it’s really not. So yeah, just something to consider is how much are your leads worth?
Daniel: We’ve actually done a previous episode on on the value leads and I think we yeah we’ve had a range anywhere between se several thousand and and tens of thousands of pounds that you would actually pay for it for a lead. So yeah, you’re definitely into into car territory.
At the upper end of the range. And one, one thing that that. That I was thinking about there, as well as as Adam was describing, the the rewarding of existing referral partners is I generally, my [00:28:00] own experience and what I hear most from others is that it’s really difficult to stimulate referrals in the first place from people that haven’t referred you before. But if you can. Identify someone that has referred you before and reward them then almost likely to go on and do the same again. So that’s, that seems like the stronger of the two tactics.
Devin: Yeah, for sure. You know, farm, what’s what’s already there versus going outside your ecosystem. Yeah, I think definitely. And then the other thing too is just make sure you follow up with them to let them know how it went, know? Um,
Adam: a hundred percent.
Devin: So, so, so they know that you are, you know, paying good attention
To the leads that you were, that are being referred and you’re treating them well.
Daniel: Yeah, really good. We’ve somehow run outta time. It’s always a pleasure talking to you. Lots of wisdom and really appreciate you sharing. So we’re at the time for the shameless plug. So, if anyone would like to follow up how do they how do they get how best to get in touch with you?
Devin: Yeah, you can reach out through our website, which is [00:29:00] eBridge marketing solution dot dot com. Sorry, eBridge marketing solutions.com. The same is for YouTube. If you search for a YouTube channel, that will pop up. We are also very active in the m and a space, which is the host broker.com. And yeah, if any of your listeners would like to talk marketing or m and a please reach out and be happy to have a conversation.
Daniel: We won’t find you on.
Devin: No I’m I’m I’m too old for TikTok. I think so.
Daniel: I saw Adam’s eyes were sort of rolling and glazing over talking about TikTok. I thought we’ve got him on YouTube. That’s that that’s it. That’s a good,
Adam: I only just learned how to text Dan to be.
Daniel: Brilliant. It’s been a pleasure talking to you. Thanks ever so much for joining us.
Devin: Thanks, Adam. Thanks Daniel. Appreciate it.