In this episode, Adam and Daniel welcome Dean to discuss the nuances of recruitment and retention within the Managed Service Provider (MSP) industry. This conversation touches upon the challenges MSPs face, particularly around outsourcing and attracting the right talent. Dean elaborates on the importance of having a robust employer brand, effective onboarding processes, and the significance of personalised development pathways. The discussion also covers modern benefits that appeal to candidates, including flexible working arrangements, mental health support, and unique perks like sabbaticals. Practical advice on ensuring operational stability while embracing flexibility, as well as proactive strategies to mitigate the risk of employee attrition, provides substantial value for MSP owners and hiring managers alike.
00:00 Introduction and Welcoming Dean
00:26 The Irony of MSPs Resisting Outsourcing
01:37 Best Practices in Recruitment
03:01 Attracting the Right Candidates
03:46 Importance of Employer Branding
05:42 Benefits and Work-Life Balance
08:26 Flexibility and Hybrid Work Models
15:22 Onboarding and Retention Strategies
21:57 The Role of Job Descriptions
24:30 Employer Branding and Values
31:10 Conclusion and Contact Information
Listen on Spotify or Apple Podcasts
Connect with Dean Watmough on LinkedIn by clicking here – https://www.linkedin.com/in/dean-watmough-b0a05513/
Connect with Daniel Welling on LinkedIn by clicking here – https://www.linkedin.com/in/daniel-welling-54659715/
Connect with Adam Morris on LinkedIn by clicking here – linkedin.com/in/adamcmorris
Visit The MSP Finance Team website, simply click here – https://www.mspfinanceteam.com/
We look forward to catching up with you on the next one. Stay tuned!
Transcript:
Dan: great to have you finally on the, on the podcast with us. this has been, I think, six or seven months in the planning.
Dean: It’s been a while. A few things have, have gone against us, but it’s good to be here. Gents. Thank you for having me.
Dan: And, funnily enough, we’ve had a recent, recruitment theme. So, we’re keen to, to move the conversation on from previous podcast episodes. And, before we do though, in the green room, as we often do with our guests, we talk about, life, the universe and everything, and the irony that is, the MSP industry being resistant to outsourcing, the very thing that, that they themselves, providing from an IT perspective.
Dan: So maybe just kick us off with some thoughts around that, Dean.
Dean: I think, obviously the MSP sector, is full of very capable people. Very strong. Technically can turn their hand to anything. No doubt. They’re very good at DIY and all those things as well. And we’ll give anything to go. but I think, you know, recruitment is one of those things that there’s often a lot more involved.
Dean: Then you think there is. And just as MSPs advise their clients, look, if you want the job doing right, give the job to a specialist. and that’s our standpoint, you know, we, anybody can recruit. Of course, they can, but it’s down to, if you’ve got the time, the skills, the resources to do it properly.
Dean: and do it justice. That’s the only way really you find good people that are going to fit your organization.
Dan: So capability and availability. and. Maybe let’s focus a little bit of our time today on talking about the capability part. So, whether we’ve outsourced it or we manage it in house or indeed a blend of the two, maybe let’s dive into some sort of best practice approaches to recruitment that, would apply regardless MSP is doing it themselves or, or working with a partner.
Dan: maybe, we were talking before about, about, candidates and, you described a situation where there’s 25 CVs, that you’re having to go through and, and, and, and, and assess, but. For some of our listeners, having 25 CVs of any standard would be a dream come true, let alone, three or four that are ideal.
Dan: So, maybe, candidates, search and attraction is the starting point for this. where do people start and what, what makes the difference?
Dean: I think, volume of, of applicants and candidates is often a mixed blessing because, you know, it’s like anything. it’s like marketing and recruitment is actually part of the marketing process. You know, there are four Ps of marketing, price, product, place, promotion, but there’s a fifth one, which is People.
Dean: Okay. So, so it should be treated very much like marketing, especially that attraction piece. and it’s all about attracting the right audience or the right candidates. There’s no point you know, shouting your message. if you’re an MSP, to, to people who don’t want to hear it or are not the right people to receive it same with applicants and with candidates.
Dean: So, you know, a lot of, MSPs, will put a job ad out on something like Indeed or one of the other job boards. They’ll get nothing. Okay. Or they’ll get a raft of applicants, the majority of which are unsuitable, but they still have to troll through them to try and spot that needle in the haystack.
Dean: And that’s time consuming. And our kind of, philosophy is, You know, unless you’ve got the time to do that, you’re wasting your time and that time should be better spent running your business and hand off the stuff that you’re not the best person to be doing or don’t have the time or resource to do well.
Dean: To either someone else or an outsource provider. I think, the, you know, a lot of, MSPs could do a better job if they presented the business better. So that’s your employer brand, just like you have a, you know, a brand for your business, you also have an employer brand and that’s, you know, what you tell the world, what your employees tell the world about what it’s like to work there, you know, quite a few, MSPs will have a careers page on their website.
Dean: Great. is such a good thing to have, but it’s just like, you know, the rest of your website, it needs to be kept current, needs to be kept relevant. And you need to, you know, have, you know, employer, employee stories on there, things that are engaging. so hopefully, you know, when you do come to recruit, people can do the homework because candidates do their homework.
Dean: Now they’re interested in a lot more.
Adam: Dean, can you just expand on what you’re talking about here? I’m really interested to know outside of salary. What is it that attracts candidates to an MSP? so the small MSPs that are out there may be a bit more budget conscious. maybe they’re competing with engineers who are, you know, looking at bigger organizations, offering big packages and salaries.
Adam: What can the MSP do? To attract good MSP candidates. What are those things that those guys are looking for?
Dean: So there’s two things there. There’s two parts to that. firstly, absolutely at MSP, their preference would quite often be somebody with MSP experience, but you’re naturally reducing the size of the talent pool by looking for people with MSP experience. Okay, we get it. but a lot of the time, clients will say to us, but it’s more about attitude.
Dean: Just because you’ve not worked in an MSP doesn’t mean you’re not going to fit into an MSP or have the skill sets and capabilities and aptitude to work well within that environment. So that’s one of the things to maybe look, you know, expand your horizons, look for, you know, Look for those, those behavioural qualities and capabilities as opposed to just the tech stack that people have been working with.
Dean: benefits, are very important as well. This, you know, in, in terms of, MSP world, quite often we see still quite an old fashioned way of approaching benefits, you know, in terms of standard holiday entitlement, still at 20 days. You know, candidates, particularly on the entry level and lower salary levels.
Dean: if they’re getting 25 days holiday, plus bank holidays, and they’re only 25 grand to go to 26 or 27, but to get less holidays has an impact. And, you know, it is. Part of their decision making. So we see that now they are really looking for, benefits, which, you know, lean more towards that work life balance.
Dean: It’s a stressful role on a service desk, particularly right. We all know that. So, you know, companies that kind of, you know, Look after their people, but do it authentically as well. Not just say it, you know, that’s where, again, where that employer brand and those employees stories really come in. you know, that’s important.
Dean: So things around mental health, seeing a lot of that now, it’s not just a buzzword. A lot of companies are taking that to heart and really trying to, instil that and genuinely promote it within their businesses. and, Techies love tech. Okay. Tech budgets, you know, they want to, you know, be able to buy the latest tech and things like that really work.
Dean: You know, we think things like cycle to it’s been around for a long time. It’s not really that high up on what candidates look for sabbaticals. We’ve got one client that for every five years of service, they give you a four week paid sabbatical. So, you know, because it’s not just about attracting, it’s about retaining, you know, it’s so destructive to your business when you lose good people, because yet, you know, I think it’s something like the average cost to bring someone in and hire someone is only about 3000 pounds.
Dean: The impact of that position left unfilled. It’s 8, 500 pounds every month and that’s in lost productivity. That’s in the, someone else taking the slack and the workload that might lead to them being off work, things like that. So yeah, there’s, it’s just thinking outside the box. A lot of it comes down to common sense.
Dean: And I always say, look, you know, is this some way you’d want your son or daughter or a relative to work? Are those benefits are the way you treat your people caring and genuine, or is it just a sweatshop and you’re just saying those things?
Adam: Yeah, the Dean, there’s some really good stuff there in particular. I really like the tech budget side. you know, what kind of laptop do you want? How many screens do you want? You know, how many fancy stands to put screens on? Do you want, you know, all this kind of stuff, you can just have it. And I really liked the sabbatical idea.
Adam: I think that’s a fantastic idea. Yeah, perfect.
Dan: In fact,
Dean: touch upon the obvious, which is the sorry, Dan, but the obvious, which is the flexibility. again, that hybrid remote, I know a lot of MSPs need people in, especially on that service desk. but others, and I, you know, I think there needs to be a blend that really does, especially for younger people entering into the marketplace.
Dean: they need mentoring, they need handholding, they need to be sat there, being able to talk to senior members of the team and really get a feel for what’s going on. But we see it a lot where, people will. Accept an offer elsewhere because there’s more hybrid and flexibility in, in, in that kind of working environment.
Dean: It’s
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Dan: I’ll come on to, the point I was going to make, in just a moment, but talking about that flexibility points, uh, the pushback, of course, from the MSP. So representing the MSP owner in, in this discussion. if I allow people to work from home and, and everyone has that flexibility, that then puts the operational capability of the business at, at risk or makes it harder to ensure we’ve got enough cover and perhaps in a bigger team, you can afford a bit more of that, but in the smaller team, the three, four, fives that say the sub 20 and I know problems do scale.
Dan: So, you know, not all things are sold by size, but, how do you see. those MSPs offering that level of flexibility as standard, how are they coping operationally?
Dean: to having the right process, isn’t it? I think having, mature management, the way you onboard people, onboarding is often forgotten. And, you know, I’ve been part of and experienced really bad onboarding. And then that’s in senior roles. And because I was You know, mature enough and thick skinned enough, you work through it and you find the answers yourself.
Dean: But that shouldn’t really be the case. And I think if you’ve got thorough onboarding, it’s well thought through. and there’s good solid processes in place. there’s communication channels, which are open, then it shouldn’t be that much of a problem. but like I say, Hey, I’ve run a small MSP. I wanted those guys sat around.
Dean: You know, I couldn’t wait to get out of COVID and be able to get everybody back in the office because you do also miss out on that bond, that team bonding, that banter, that, you know, and you need a bit of bantering on a service desk because, as we said, it’s a stressful place to be. So it’s down to the individual operation.
Dean: I think those that can offer it, yeah. as much, then there’s things they can do and to attract good candidates who may have an offer elsewhere or may already be working in more of a hybrid remote environment. And that is to get them in for half a day. Let them spend half a day with you. Let them get a feel for your employer brand, you know, for your culture, because that often swings it.
Dean: you know, then it’s not just, I’m comparing, you know, black with white here is, well, do you know what? I’ve been in that experience where it’s like to work in there. I’ve met that team. I’d actually, I wouldn’t mind spending every day in that environment. So there are ways you can compete. you don’t have to just offer like for like, but again, it comes down to common sense.
Dean: You’ve got to appreciate what the marketplace is like and what has been an offer elsewhere. And you need to keep up with that, or you need to present what you do. in a way which makes it appealing and engaging.
Adam: Dean, my mind is racing with the coming for half a day concept. I think we might’ve tried something like it years ago. I think the challenge was always, what are they going to do? You can’t give them, you know, log ons, you know, what’s a worthwhile exercise? How does it work? I mean, what could you give me some meat on the bones here?
Adam: what could an MSP look to do with those four hours, to kind of That personality, that culture.
Dean: So bear in mind at this stage we’re probably at after they’ve interviewed somebody. So they’ve probably had, you know, the standard type of interview. and then it’s a case of, look, let’s just get you in. Let’s just meet the team. Okay. It’s, they’re not going to be sat on the desk, you know, answering tickets, obviously security issues with that and everything, but it’s more of a get to know you.
Dean: team bonding kind of feel for things. Go out for a, you know, go out for a coffee with a member of the team you’ll be working closely with. Then you can get the warts and all. you might go back,
Adam: so some informal, you know, half an hour sitting with the guys on the desk, meeting the team lead for a half an hour, going out for a coffee, having lunch with somebody else. that, that kind of a process, that’s the kind of thing you’re thinking of.
Dean: 100%. You know, get getting behind the curtain, seeing what it’s really like. And again, it all ties back to that employer brand. If you’re presenting your employer branding in the right way and you put time and effort into that, and quite often in smaller MSPs, they’re not recruiting that often. So, so this is not something they would, you know, see they need to spend a lot of time on.
Dean: if you’re going to be recruiting fairly regularly, Then I’d certainly say that employer brand piece is very important because you can also be building up a talent pool of engaged potential candidates. So when the time comes that you do have a position or someone comes onto the market that you really don’t want to miss, you’re really well placed to be able to reduce the time it takes to fill that role.
Dean: So employer brand, very important, but that. Getting them in for half a day. That’s all part of that employer brand positioning.
Dan: Yeah, because it’s, I think in the past when I’d done, arranged trials for, for, Perspective team members. It was as much about us assessing them as them assessing us. But of course, to do that, we had that same conundrum of, what can we get them to do? but I think you’re I think you’re spot on.
Dan: it’s got to be more about, selling. selling the, the MSP. So the candidate, rather than at that point, you’re already happy that the candidate is, is going to have the, the right attributes for you. the, the other point I was going to make earlier was, yeah, I also like that sabbatical, concepts, reasons.
Dan: the first is, it ticks that, that, retaining that. So tackling attrition in the, in the medium and long term, which I think is the key risk. generally my experience was if someone was going to leave, they left pretty quickly. and, and, and then you had, then you had a good period from, say, the end of year one up to perhaps year three, year four.
Dan: and that was the time where you wanted to, to optimize their, their tenure. So, and the second point on that was, just to let Adam know that, January, 2026, I’ll be in Thailand for the month. looking forward to that. I think that’ll be, that’ll qualify by then.
Adam: you need to submit your form to the head of HR Dan and, and we’ll assess. Okay.
Dean: be counting those days down. Make sure you’ve done those five years.
Dan: so, so, yeah, we’ve got some great topics there. the onboarding, we touched on that. So, we’ve been successful in our, in our interview process. We’ve had an offer accepted. they’ve not been counted, or if they have, it’s been unsuccessful. they’ve, done their interview.
Dan: They’re, they’re Taster Half day, and, and they’re now on board. what would you say month one, two, three looks like in terms of onboarding? Talk us through some of the good things you’ve seen there.
Dean: Yeah. And I get why onboarding is often forgotten, right? Especially because you’re running a busy MSP or you’re a hiring manager at the service desk, whatever it is, you’re busy. It’s not your day job recruitment. It just gets added onto your day job. so, and it’s a massive relief. Great. We found somebody.
Dean: Wow. I can get back to my to do list now and get back into my today job, into my day to day job. but. When someone accepts, that’s when the onboarding has to begin. It’s not when they actually turn up for day one that either, you know, some senior roles, they can have three months notice. So it’s so important that those communication channels are open and that you are able to share information, which is going to give them, you know, more detail about the role, the company, the clients, obviously you’re not going to share anything, which is, they’re not able to see until they’re officially part of the organization.
Dean: But, you know, Setting up conversations with their team and their future teammates, where here’s where you’re going to sit, you know, here’s the clients you’re going to be working with it, as much information as you can provide, it keeps them, it keeps them really hot and excited about joining the business.
Dean: and if somebody does come along and start whispering in their ear, do you know what? company I’m joining, they can’t wait to get me on board. They’re so excited, they’re so engaged in the process, they’re so invested in me already, I already feel part of the team. Again, it goes back to common sense.
Dean: You make people feel wanted. And if, as long as it’s genuine and there’s some thought put into it, Hey, you know, we’re having a team lunch. come and join us on the team lunch. All those things are so important to making sure when someone does join, they hit the ground running, but also they already feel part of the team.
Dan: Yeah. sounds, I mean, it sounds obvious, as you describe it, but, I, yeah, I’m sure it’s not universally followed. so, so now we’ve started, and, what would the, what would a good onboarding look like? months, one to three?
Dean: You know, in a lot of sales roles, I came from the sales side of IT. When you join a new business, part of the actual interview process is often putting together your 30, 60, 90 day plan. I’ve never ever seen that in a technical role. That’s actually what, you know, the business should be putting together and then collaborating with the new starter on.
Dean: Okay, here’s what we see your first 30 days looking like. Here’s what your first week’s going to be like. You’re going to spend time with these people. before you join, we’d like you to swat up a little bit more on this. you know, what exams would you like to take? You know, within, you know, your first six months, we’d like you to pass this.
Dean: And we have a couple of clients actually that when they do take on, like first liners, they’ll say, right, you’re going to start at this salary, but within the first 12 months, and we’re going to pay for your training, by the way, but within the first 12 months, soon as you achieve this, you go up another thousand pounds.
Dean: So you’re incentivizing. so it’s just, It’s thinking through, okay, what’s the role, not just the role, because many people doing that role are different, what suits this person within this role? Let’s put out a personalized pathway for this person for that first three months, and then that leads into their career path.
Adam: Dean.
Dean: And that’s how you retain people.
Adam: yeah. Personalized pathway. that’s gold us. Definitely. I’m loving that. and is that something that you would start a conversation on around the point of offer, even.
Dean: Yeah, because you want to get an, you want to establish, look, where do you want to be? There’s a lot of, There’s a lot of tripe, a lot of old questions that just get banded around and asked as wrote, right? We think we need to ask these things. you know, where do you want to be in the next 12 months or five years?
Dean: You can be a lot more specific and you can only really ask those questions. But when you get to know someone a little bit better, look, we’d love you to join us, where, how would you like us to onboard you? What do you need from us to help you hit the ground running? Okay. What tech would you like? Okay.
Dean: You know, what exams would you like to be put forward for, or, you know, let’s look at the training plan further down the line. Now, if you approach someone, regardless of level or salary, they’re going to engage with you and they, you know, they’re going to come back to you with what they’re looking for.
Dean: so it’s a great place to start a conversation.
Adam: and so is this an offer conversation, which is including these questions around what the future could look like. So rather than waiting for their first day to arrive, where you hand over your onboarding plan, which they’ve had no involvement in, you’re actually starting to construct.
Adam: That at the point of offer, which is doing two things, it’s clearly showing you, you care about who you’re taking on and this individual. and also looking to make, that process as successful as possible by including that person. So I’m just trying to sort of just understand at what point it makes sense to have this conversation, starting the conversation.
Dean: I think that’s driven by how well you’re liking the candidate during the interview, right? You’ll know for a fact if he’s a candidate you really like and you think, I’d love these guys to be on board, then, you know, it’s about, that’s when you’re going a bit more depth. Okay. and I think, I think there are questions that need to be asked at that interview stage if you’re serious about the candidate.
Dean: because it then sets the scene moving forwards because you will then know what’s going to, if you get into a competitive scenario for that candidate, you’re going to know what really floats their boat and it’s going to attract them to you. Key thing, we see it, there’s only really a couple of reasons people move.
Dean: the number one is they hit a ceiling. Right. and, and we hear a lot of people who they say the role is not what I thought it was going to be or what it was sold to me as being, and I’m not doing anywhere near as much as this that they said I would be doing. So it’s very important that if you do go down that route of discussing, you know, where do you want to be in 3, 6, 12 months?
Dean: That you do follow through and you do deliver as the employer, as long as they’re meeting their KPIs. And you know, it’s a two way street.
Dan: We might have some, some listeners to this episode thinking, Oh, that will sound, very, very straightforward and sensible. perhaps I should have done that a year ago, two years ago, three years ago. Perhaps I’ve got like a risk bubbling up. is, is this something that you see?
Dan: almost like an awareness, happening within an MSP and then they, and what can they do to go back and perhaps, perhaps be proactive about, about, tackling the risk of attrition.
Dean: So just as onboarding is really important, but often forgotten about or, you know, not, not considered enough job descriptions. Okay. Job descriptions are absolutely vital, accurate job descriptions. We see a lot that are just a catch all list, just in case somebody says, that’s not my job description. It is check page 24, you know?
Dean: so, so the job description is an essential document that captures the role, the requirements of the individual performing that role. And that’s how you manage them and performance manage them moving forwards. Based on the job description. So a lot of MSPs don’t have any internal HR or, you know, full time HR.
Dean: We see a lot of, HR within smaller MSPs. That’s kind of shared function. A lot of the time with finance that always, you know, they are quite different finance and HR. but we understand again, you’re right. A lot of HR is, more administrative. Retaining people, good, solid HR is vital to retain people.
Dean: And it’s about having the right documentation, the right processes, people management, strategic management of HR and people, and those career paths were mentioned before, but also helping people out. Along those career paths. So you are delivering. So we, that’s why we’re not just about recruitment. We also provide HR services.
Dean: and you know, a lot of our clients start out with this on the recruitment side of things, but we get into just that conversation, how are you going to onboard these people? That job description is not great. You know, you appreciate that it’s a really important document. So we deploy, our HR consultants who are all from tech.
Dean: into our clients and, they help them get our performance management and employee engagement piece in place.
Adam: In terms of the job description that you were just talking about and how it, You were using it from a performance management perspective. How do you square the circle then of trying to attract good quality candidates that would be the right fit for you from a culture and values perspective in a document, which is perhaps kind of dry because there’s a performance management component to it.
Adam: So do we want a separate. document that describes who you are and what you stand for and what your business is about, and it’s got some pretty colours in it or whatever, or do you try and blend that into your job description and be two things in one?
Dean: Yeah. So, again, a lot of HR documentation is quite Basic and quite dull. but that’s where then the employer branding piece comes into play. And there’s no reason why you can’t, you know, you can’t make your, HR documentation more engaging and have some imagery and a bit more about the business in there as well, rather than it just being a word document with some bullets, let’s, you know, let’s put some time and effort into, if you put the same time and effort into, the marketing to attract new clients that you did into attracting new candidates.
Dean: You’d have no issues whatsoever. and, you know, every business owner will tell you it’s our people and that’s what they’ll tell to their clients and to the outside world, our people are what make us different, but very few focus enough time and effort, particularly on things like the marketing aspect of attracting good candidates and also the processes and policies to retain their people.
Dean: so yeah, I think it’s, again, it’s a common sense. Look, what would I be engaged by that? You know, would that attract me into this position, you know, or a member of my family or my child, would they, would that excite them? you know, and that job description again, just to go back to that, I always say focus on the core things that person is going to be doing. Okay. They’re the, where do you need them the most, where they’re going to be spending the most time and put a bit more detail around those things instead of just, you know, five words on a bullet. Make it meaningful, make it something that can become a two-way, discussion point, and then both parties can help to refine it because no, no one’s a perfect match for a job description ever.
Dean: No one ever ticks every box, ever. So it’s a case of, alright, we need to change this job description a little bit now, because this person doesn’t have that skill. So when to either take that off or change the level of the skill that we require,
Dan: yeah. I was looking for a business partner called Adam, who had run an MSP and, just, the stars aligned. so
Dean: you found the unicorn
Dan: but, to the, to Adam’s question, are we confusing here and, perhaps correct us if we’re not using the right terminology here? Are we confusing what might go in a job advert with a job description that’s part of a wider set of internal documents?
Dean: and should there be two? a hundred percent. A job advert is not, sorry. A job description is not a job advert. Okay, a job description is like the manual for your car. All right. The, they don’t, you know, the car advertiser doesn’t spend time talking you through the intricacies of that engine. Okay. What they do, they show you someone driving that car through down a beautiful road in, you know, in a wonderful scene.
Dean: That’s what engages you. And it’s advertising. As I said, you know, it’s part of marketing. If you want to attract somebody. Don’t stick a list of bullets up there. Cause who does that engage? How is that going to engage somebody? Okay. Tell them about the work they’re going to be doing, the clients that you work with, you know, the wonderful things that you’ve done, the team, you know, tell them those things.
Dean: if they’re working, you know, if they’re working with the latest and greatest tech, obviously gives, give a bit towards that. but a job description is then what lays out the detail. That would just, you know, it would dull people’s senses if you put that into an advertisement and it does. We see it all the time.
Adam: And I’ve come across organizations, not necessarily in the MSP sector, who have built a brochure effectively and the brochures for recruitment. it’s marketing material for future employees and it talks all about. Who the people are, who the clients are, the work that they do, the events they go on, the culture, you know, shots of the office, et cetera, et cetera.
Adam: and it, when you think about it, it makes sense. why don’t we put that same level of effort in with some good photography, some good copy, proper branding. And, you know, if you’re, if you’re a great candidate, you’ve got lots of employers looking to get you. And one of them sticks out with this fantastic piece of marketing.
Adam: maybe it’s a physical copy, maybe it’s a PDF, whatever, but it’s that, you know, you stand out, right. You put that extra effort in. and to me that would seem like a great thing to do.
Dean: You don’t have to be Google or Facebook, you know, or Apple. If you look at their career sites. Wow. They blow you away. All right. So, but you don’t, you know, obviously we don’t have the resources to be able to do it. Do that or invest at that level. However, give it some thought, you know, and it all starts with that, you know, as we say, the employer brand, but before you can develop your employer brand, you need to know what your employee employer value proposition is.
Dean: And quite often, you know, it’s business. We used to see this a lot in like the kind of nineties, early noughties, where you’d come into work one day and there was loads of stickers and posters on the wall. and Oh, there are values. Okay. well I wasn’t told or involved in that process, but I’m being told it’s been dictated to me that they are our company values.
Dean: Well, Great candidates and business. Great businesses work because they include people or are made up of people whose values align. You work in an organization because your values align either with a business owner or the rest of the people or the mission that the business is on. So you have to involve the team of people to understand what those values are.
Dean: And once you have those values. That’s when you can start to shape your employer brand. So what I would say is, and again, that doesn’t have to be an expensive, time consuming, costly exercise. You can, if you’ve only got a small team, take them out for lunch, go out for a beer, let’s just chat about what our values are, guys.
Dean: You know, what do you think we’re really good at? What do we do for our customers? What would our customers say about us? Ask your customers. Okay. Because that is then going to inform your brand. As an employer. and you can, and that employer branding content is as important to attracting candidates as it is to attracting new clients because they don’t buy the tech, they buy the people that deliver the tech.
Dean: So the more you can tell them about the team. Okay. And the people when I was selling tech, you know, if we had a good length of service across our techies, then I would talk about that because that gives the client, the peace of mind that these guys have been together a long time. That project’s going to run smoothly.
Dean: They all know each other. They’ve done this a million times before. So talking about your people is one of the best things you can do to sell your business, not just to new employees and new candidates. That’s a new customers
Dan: really interesting. And I guess it, that then dovetails into some of the work that Adam and I do from a, a mentoring perspective and, you know, going back to establishing exactly what it is the business is there to do and how it should behave and how it should be guided by its core values.
Dan: So, so no, really, yeah, really interesting to almost, square the circle with that point. And, some, somehow, we are, we’re, we’re at time and, and it’s this time in the episode we offer our guest a shameless plug. and, so, if, if any of our listeners want to reach out or carry the conversation on, how do they get hold of you?
Dean: just can either visit our website, humanize. com spell H U M N I Z E. com thought it was a great name when I came up with it, but everyone calls it home. Nice, but we’ll take it. or, you know, connect with me on LinkedIn. but, yeah, thank you so much for the time gents. it’s, you know, I can talk about this stuff all day long.
Dean: You can tell, but it’s because we’re passionate and do you know what? Yeah. A lot of it. It’s not rocket science. I wouldn’t be able to do it if it was. It’s common sense, but it’s in the heat of the moment when you’re fighting fires in your MSP. It’s the stuff that gets dropped. but we say, look, pick it up when you can, because it is important.
Dan: Wise words and thank you very much for your time and all the best.
Adam: Cheers.
Dean: Thanks, gents. Appreciate that.