In this episode, Jane discusses the paradox within the Managed Service Provider (MSP) industry where companies readily outsource IT management but hesitate to outsource recruitment. The conversation delves into the inefficiencies and costs of in-house recruitment, the value of specialised recruiters, and the significance of cultural and technical fit in hiring. The challenges of the recruitment industry, perceptions of integrity, and effective strategies for MSPs to select and collaborate with recruiters are also highlighted. Jane shares insights from her extensive experience and provides thoughtful perspectives on future trends in recruitment and workforce management.
00:00 Introduction and Episode Title Reveal
00:09 The Irony of MSPs and Recruitment
01:44 Breaking Down Recruitment Costs
02:47 The Recruitment Process: Steps and Challenges
05:43 The Role of Recruiters and Industry Perception
08:41 Ethics and Integrity in Recruitment
17:29 Finding the Right Fit: Behavioural and Technical Skills
19:52 Long-term Planning and Recruitment Strategies
22:25 Counter Offers and Salary Negotiations
25:23 In-house Recruitment vs. External Recruiters
27:11 Future of Recruitment in a Global Workforce
29:44 Conclusion and Shameless Plug
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Connect with Jane Matthews on LinkedIn by clicking here – https://www.linkedin.com/in/janematthewsitrecruiter/
Connect with Daniel Welling on LinkedIn by clicking here – https://www.linkedin.com/in/daniel-welling-54659715/
Connect with Adam Morris on LinkedIn by clicking here – linkedin.com/in/adamcmorris
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We created It’s a Numbers Game Podcast to help MSP owners learn and understand how to build and maintain a financially healthy MSP business. In this podcast series, MSP business owners like you will learn the fundamental steps, the tips and tricks, the dos and don’ts to achieve MSP financial growth.
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Transcript
Dan: Jane, great to have you with us. We actually have a working title for this episode. So let’s see how true we can we can actually be to it. So the title is to an MSP, you ask your clients to outsource their IT management to you. So why are you so reluctant to outsource your recruitment to a recruiter? Discuss.
Jane: Very controversial. Excellent stuff. Yeah, I just find it quite bizarre, isn’t it? You do the MSP world, whereas their business model is outsourcing. IT services. And then they’re very reluctant to actually outsource their recruitment because they feel they can do it themselves on the cheap, but actually it ends up costing a hell of a lot more money in the long run and as well as time.
Jane: So yeah, it’s an interesting subject.
Dan: Absolutely. And I didn’t mean to put you on the spotlight that, but I think you’ve immediately surfaced a couple of the reasons. The elephant in the room has to be cost. And if you put an MSP in a room talking to another MSP and they will all have stories of, well, that client, I could have done so much for them.
Dan: If only they had provided more budget or given me more time or listened to, to, to what I was talking about and off often. We’ll actually, Adam and I, when we’re talking about those sorts of situations, we’ll be like, well, probably it was a bit on you actually, MSP to have not made the con, the conversation interesting enough, raised it up there, their list of priorities to spend the time on.
Dan: So. Maybe there’s two sides to that to that coin. But how do we unpack this the cost topic? What should it cost to, to recruit someone?
Jane: I think you have to look at the level of staff that you want to have in your organization, which then therefore provides the level of customer service and technical expertise to your client base. So what is it that you want to be able to provide for your client? If you want to provide.
Jane: You know, what’s the old saying, isn’t it? Pay peanuts, get monkeys. And the same thing goes for any service out there unfortunately. So I think really it is about looking at what, you know, the people of your organization really are what make your organization, especially from an MSP, you know, they’re the first people to answer the phone.
Jane: So you need to make sure that they really are representing your, you know, your employer brand in the right way.
Dan: Unless of course they outsource or offshore, but then there’s still a
Jane: Indeed.
Dan: Come on to in a moment, the whole impact that’s had on the industry. So, let’s go beyond. So talking about the. The calibre or the importance of the person, let’s break it down to a task level.
Dan: What’s actually involved in recruiting someone how what are the tactics that an MSP might employ if they were doing it themselves? What amount of time might they or should they be assuming that they’re gonna, they’re gonna spend? And by doing so, we almost create a budget for a task that can then be outsourced to a recruiter.
Jane: absolutely. So from a time point of view, if you start with that, you, any good person is probably going to be in a job already. So they’ve, you need to work backwards. So if you want someone to start, say in November, you need to function in the fact they’ve probably got a month’s notice. So that would take you to October.
Jane: Then you’ve got to factor in the amount of time it takes to, do the interview process. Have they got an interview process? What does their interview process look like? Is the interview process actually the right process? Is it giving them the desired outcome? And then you need to rewind it back again.
Jane: So then you’ve got the pre screen. So, you know, chatting away to sometimes, you know, a lot of different characters, and then you’ve got to rewind it back again to You know, putting an advert out there. A lot of MSPs use Indeed or, you know, LinkedIn. But then it’s not just the advert. It’s when do you have the time to actually go through all the CVs?
Jane: What are you actually looking for in a CV? Do you know what is going to make a good person for your organization? And that rewinds it back again to, Do you know what you actually want? Do you know what your values are? Do you know what the job description needs to look like? Have you ever written a job description before?
Jane: Do you know how important a job description is for basis of, you know, an employment contract? And you can just keep going like that and that. And the amount of times it takes people just kind of think, well, we’ll just stick an advert out there and then, you know, we’ll get really good people because we’re an amazing organization.
Jane: And then, you know, they don’t and they’re surprised by it and they’ve ended up paying. You know, I was speaking to a client who’s now using me, who said that last year he probably spent more than my recruitment fee on Indeed and didn’t get any good candidates. He doesn’t know why he did it, but he thought he could do it better. So it’s an interesting one. It’s an interesting one. And then the cost implication is, for instance, he spent, you know, that much money on Distill Indeed. and he didn’t get what he needed. He did recruit, but they didn’t last because he didn’t pick right. He didn’t have the right processes in place. He didn’t have the right entry process in place.
Jane: We’re working with him to get all that sorted. You know, we do the technical testing side of things, so that takes away more time and money, which again is, you know, time is money, isn’t it? At the end of the day. So yeah it’s, there’s a lot more involved in recruitment than I think people actually appreciate.
Jane: And that’s why. I suppose that, you know, there are people like myself and companies like myself out there that do it full time and specialize in it. It’s, you know, and we are the ones that you know, as soon as we’re, you know, known as sort of the estate agents of the recruitment world, which is fine
Adam: it’s interesting you say that actually, Jane, estate agent, self recruitment, because I was just, as you was talking, I was, this thought came into my head around the, whether there’s a problem out there with you know, the industry, recruitment industry and the perception it has and the degree to which MSP owners have been stung by less honest lower integrity recruitment.
Adam: People that are out there. I certainly have. And you know, we hear these horror stories all the time around the way that recruiters, you know, play someone with you and then six months later, they’re on the phone to them, looking to place them somewhere else. And of course in doing so they’re now. Creating another position vacancy in your business, which of course they want to sell you another person. So I’m not saying by any means that is typical. I’m just saying that has happened to me and I think it’s happened to a lot of people. So, so I guess I’m just really interested to know how is the industry sort of managing that challenge perhaps is it something that’s still around, is it still an issue?
Adam: You know, you know, what are your thoughts on that overall?
Jane: So if you rewind back to the beginning of my career, I worked in one of the big players back then, which was a long time ago, which was computer people. They’re part of a deco now, I think. But the point being is the bigger the agency or the consultancy the more people are, well, you’re basically, I was tasked.
Jane: it’s still the same now, it might be completely different. I believe it is. Pretty much the same. You’re tasked on how many phone calls you make, how many candidates you speak to, how many CVs you go out there. It’s all your KPIs, yeah? And if you don’t hit them, you have to stay behind in the office until you hit them.
Jane: Because if you hit all those numbers, then the results are meant to come. So it’s sales, yeah? So it’s a numbers game. Oh, see what I did there? Didn’t even realise it. Thank you. So the point being is because of that, you’ve got very young people as well into a organization whereby they don’t have the life experience.
Jane: They haven’t been and recruited themselves for it, for positions. They don’t have the life experience and they don’t have the wisdom. So they, but they’re pushed really hard by their team leads. Supervisors, et cetera, because they’re pushed from the top all about the bottom line. So yes, you do get that in recruitment, sadly.
Jane: And because of that, and because the big players do it, it’s quite difficult. Then when you get people who break away from the big players and the people who tend consultancies. They do it like, like MSP owners do it because they believe there’s a better way to do it and not the way that they were taught and actually they can make a difference.
Jane: And that is exactly why I opened mine is because I believe there’s a better way. I will not poach anybody out of a company that I have placed them in because to me, that’s unethical. You know, I wouldn’t even dream of doing it. I used to really put up a fight in my, when I was in my twenties and I was made to do it, I would pretend I was doing it, but I didn’t do it because it didn’t feel right.
Jane: It’s not right. At the end of the day, the way I look at it is you have a partnership with a client. It’s not a money machine and you create that partnership and you become a, you know, I’ve been told I’m part of their business. And to me, that’s a huge compliment. And what I really love is to be able to go into their business and go, Oh, look, how’s Bert doing?
Jane: How’s Fred doing? You know, for instance, and I feel like a proud mother hen because I’m helping them build their business, which helps them build their dreams as a business owner is helping, you know, the candidate who’s there actually build their life. And for me it’s that massive ripple effect that I can make as an individual.
Jane: So yeah, it’s still around. Absolutely. And I think it always will be, but it’s choosing wisely the people you’re working with just as. When a company goes out and has their IT done by an outsourced company, I guess, and an MSP, there are bad players, there are great players, there are exceptional players, and there are different, you know, MSPs that specialize in different industries as well.
Jane: So it’s the same sort of idea, I suppose.
Adam: that’s a fantastic answer. I really like it. What might therefore be two or three key questions to ask a recruiter for an MSP out there that’s looking to select the right type of recruiter to work with perhaps what, yeah what might they be?
Jane: I would say ask them to speak to a past client or a current client and you’ll get, you know, maybe get two or three that’s always good. Also to really understand their background to understand who you’ll be working with, because the bigger the company, sadly, the more you’ll get passed from pillar to post. And it’s really about making sure that you do your research on the individual that you’re dealing with and spending the time to get to know them and understanding their background, understanding what their vision is, understanding how they like to recruit. If they’ve got time for you and they’re happy to spend.
Jane: More than half an hour with you. And they’re happy to spend a few meetings with you and happy to go out and see you as a client et cetera. Then you know that they’re serious. It’s when you end up almost like this, you know, one size fits all recruitment, which doesn’t work because everybody’s business is individual.
Jane: Everybody’s team are full of different individuals, different characters, and you’ve got different values, et cetera. So I’d say it was do your research, really do your research and spend your time. asking the right questions and understanding who are, who they are in the background and getting, you know, testimonials, if you like, or references by you, not just asking for those testimonials, but actually speaking to that person’s client base.
Dan: And so having established the value to the, to, to the recruiter relationship and their integrity, how they go about con conducting their responsibility, going back to the commercials of this and Adam alluded to it, that it’s quite lumpy, isn’t it?
Dan: The recruitment model you end up paying success fee typically and that’s just at the point when you’re taking on the extra cost of employing someone as well.
Jane: Yeah.
Dan: You know, you can understand the motivation. Yeah.
Jane: Yeah,
Dan: for the owner. And then the rebate period.
Dan: Nor normally if someone’s gonna leave, they’re gonna leave one day after the rebate period has either dropped significantly or expired fully. And that’s almost one, one of the certainties, or they’ll stay with you for years and so, how do we you know, is this just something that we have to get over ourselves about from an accounting perspective?
Dan: We can spread the cost a little bit. But from a cashflow perspective it is what it is. How have you broached this historically in your career?
Jane: Yeah it’s, you know, it is a bugbearer having to pay for a service that you’re given, which always makes me laugh in the first place, but there we go. You know, we’ve got an awful lot of costs that are associated to what we do, as you’d imagine. But the way I look at it is that, you know, you talk as a grown up, you have a mature conversation about the situation. We tend to spread the cost out for people in the sense that we will charge upfront. Sometimes in the middle and sometimes at the end as well depending on what suits their business model best. And also from our point of view, from a commercial’s point of view, getting paid in stages is actually better for us because we’ve got outgoings as a business, you know, salaries, overheads, Software, fandangled software, you know, et cetera, et cetera.
Jane: So if we can have it almost as a, we call it retained model. It means, you know, as an MSP, when they have the monthly costs coming in, because we don’t have that reoccurring revenue because we’re almost project based, if you like, it really helps. So that’s that side of things. With regards to what we, you know, the rebate period or the guarantee period for myself, there’s two ways to look at it.
Jane: You have. Over each option, you have a 90 day guarantee, which means if that person leaves within those first 90 days, then we replace them free of charge. We also have another model whereby we provide coaching, and I partner with the CTO, Ben Fielding, who’s the head of my business. And we go and we coach for six months. Obviously there is a slightly increased fee for that but it’s not for the actual returns and the return on investment is. is much better when you do it that way. The issue you have as an external force going in, because we’re not their business coach, like, you know, other people are, and they’re more trusting.
Jane: A lot of people don’t necessarily want someone to be coaching their employee and themselves. in that business for six months. Well, why do you want to do that? Are you going to just find out that, you know, you’re going to find more roles or that they’re not quite right, or you’re going to get us to sack them.
Jane: And it’s like, no, we want you to retain your staff because retaining your staff is really important for your business. And it’s, you know, it’s important for your customers, et cetera. So I think the. The difference is trying to get people to understand that recruiters are there as a partner and not as a recruiter.
Jane: And somebody said to me, Jane, you’re more than just a recruiter. I was like, good. I should hope so.
Dan: they meant that as a compliment, presumably, yeah,
Jane: Yeah. Yeah. And I was like, thanks very much. Yeah. I realize that, you know, and we offer HR services ass we offer disc workshops as well. We just certified practitioner, so we don’t just go, right, there’s a person.
Jane: Good luck. See you later. It’s really, you know, I feel that we are, that the right arm of people’s organizations from a recruiting point of view. Absolutely.
Adam: So, so Jane fascinating that you’ve ended up in the servicing, servicing purely the MSP community, which is obviously where Dan and I lie as well. Why the MSP community? And what would you say is the most frustrating thing about MSP owners in terms of the way that they work?
Jane: Okay.
Dan: listening to this at all. So
Jane: No, just far away.
Adam: kind of a, if you haven’t worked it out, this is a roundabout way of asking how can MSP owners work better with
Jane: Yeah, I realize that. So, so basically they need to be more thorough, need to take the time but they need somebody that they can trust to help them show them the way. So what I mean by that is they just think that I just need this type of person, Jane. And that’s fine if I’ve been recruiting with them for a long time and building their team, I need another Bob or I need another James or I need another Sarah, then that’s no problem.
Jane: I understand it. But to start with, they need to provide. I find the time with me to actually go through exactly what they want. And I pull it out of them almost kicking and screaming sometimes because they’re great at the tech because that’s what they are. They love the tech, you know, and I love the tech too.
Jane: Otherwise I wouldn’t do what I’m doing, but it’s pulling out the soft side of things. So what would you want that person’s behaviour to be? What do you want there? You know, what are your company values? You know, going back to that culture piece and then explaining to him about disc profiles. And funnily enough, I got one of your clients to finally do a disc profile the other day, and he’s really addicted to it now.
Jane: So, you know, it’s only taken me a couple of months, but it’s almost been coming out of their comfort zone. So yeah, what was the first part to your question?
Adam: I don’t think it’s that important now. I think we can figure out that. But I guess, there’s a there’s a degree of compromise here as well. Isn’t there always, as in you’re never going to get the perfect candidate. It’s so hard. Recruiting anybody at all, really, let alone you know, a perfect fit.
Adam: So I suppose the question is to what degree, because you were talking about culture, you know, understanding the real needs for the MSP owner you know, there’s more than just technical, there’s all sorts of soft skills and there’s culture, et cetera but when we’re dealing with a limited supply in the market and choice.
Adam: From an employee’s perspective how you know, how much are we able to actually kind of, you know, even include some of those softer things into that process. So perhaps you could just explain that a bit more about how you kind of work on that fit piece. And, you know, in reality how often you’re able to have that kind of choice around selecting that perfect candidate.
Jane: So I like to call them golden unicorns, with bells on sometimes, because everybody wants a golden unicorn with bells on, and that’s fair enough, and they should have a golden unicorn with bells on, because it’s their business, absolutely. But we have to manage expectations. And first and foremost becomes their behaviours because values are something that are driven from a very young age.
Jane: You can’t change someone’s values very rarely. But you can teach technical skills. They also need to have a good grounding. But, you know, for instance, I will listen to a client and they will tell me their what I call their tech stack, obviously, and then I call them. So what are we doing with your behaviour stack?
Jane: And they look at me like, what are you talking about? So then, you know, I explain it to them like it’s a tech stack. And then I explain it to them as if we’ve got the right person fit and they’ve got the right behaviours. Then they are going to integrate into your team a lot better. They’re going to provide the service to your client that you’re looking for.
Jane: And from a technical point of view, you will have a team or you will have professional development or both that they can learn from and develop. And if you bring somebody into business who isn’t exactly what you want, but is close, the point of view from them is they’ve got something to work towards.
Jane: If you bring somebody into the business that does, can do the job straight away, they’re going to get bored. And then you’re going to have a problem retaining them because unless you’ve got something you can set them up into quickly. So there’s those two sort of areas to, to look at really, but behaviours are so, so important because you can’t change those but you can teach technical.
Jane: Yeah. Yeah. So yeah,
Dan: maybe different sized MSPs would apply to this next question that I was just musing over. But to what extent would you expect to be involved in the long term planning process? process of the MSP, because what you’re describing there is we’ve got a We’ve got to start building our level three years ago in order to bring the, bring them in without the skills, but you know, they’ve got other attributes and over time we’re going to train them up and hopefully they’re going to stay with us during that period.
Dan: And hopefully we’ll, would have grown our business to need that. So, yeah. Do you have any experience there and is that common, commonplace?
Jane: So the clue with that is, is finding people who are being paid below average for the skill base that they have and then paying them slightly above the market rate, which gives them an exceptionally good pay rise. They also get. the fact that they are being brought into a business at the beginning, which is really super exciting for them because they can make the role their own.
Jane: They can make their own career direction. And I always advise people to grow organically in the sense that to grow from the help desk out, and that’s the best way to grow a team. So you can almost start replacing as you promote. if that makes sense, but if you’ve got a small MSP where they need, say, for instance, experienced second liner, then you’re probably going to have to pay a little bit more for them.
Jane: If that you need to hit that person to hit the ground running and you can’t spend the time to actually, you know, as much time as you want to train somebody up and totally understand that. And then it is just understanding what those technical abilities need to be. And from my point of view, we do a lot of technical testing for people where But whereby that I mean, I don’t put people through a technical test in the sense of sitting on a computer and getting them to do things.
Jane: I would basically speak with the technical person in the MSP business and we get the technical questions from them and then interview them face to face and actually ask those technical questions and then report back into them. Because there’s no point in MSP interviewing somebody if they haven’t actually.
Jane: got the technical level that they’re expecting because that’s what we’re here to do as well as the cultural part or the behaviours part. They need to have both, but it’s actually understanding the level that they need on the level they want. That makes sense.
Dan: And for the candidates also so, a common situation would be where someone, a candidate, a member of an MSP’s team was being wooed, courted by another employer. And they said, well, yeah come on, come and work for us and we’ll pay you five grand more. And then the original MSP has said, oh, well, it’s going to cost us six or seven grand in a recruitment fee to replace them.
Dan: So, we’ll pay you. five grand more if you say and we’ll do lots of good things for you. So that sort of counter the offer counter offer. And then later on, they’re then still leaving anyway, but now they’re overpaid for the role that they’re in and maybe they’ve not said, right, actually, you know what I’m overpaid by 5, 000 pounds.
Dan: So I need to go and get myself two or three certifications and study at the weekend and be really diligent about this. Just saying six months, actually. Yeah. Can I just get. Even more money now. And so there’s a value there’s a value matching alignment, like a negotiation, almost like a pre negotiation, isn’t there?
Jane: Yeah. Yeah. So from our point of view, you know, we know the companies in the industry that will over inflate the salaries that people are on. And they do that because the actual usually, and this is me putting my neck out here, but usually they’re coming from a very poisonous company, if that makes sense.
Jane: Whereby they’re paying them over the odds because they know that as a company they haven’t got a good culture. If they pay them more, they’ll keep them. And then that, yeah, has a ripple effect through the business. So because we know the companies that do that, then when I speak with clients and, you know, sorry, we’re candidates and I’ll say, look, you know, it, you are being paid above the industry average, but actually.
Jane: You’re not enjoying where you are. And there’s a reason for that. They are unfortunately known in the industry to, to do this. You’ve got to weigh up actually what you want to do. If you want to better yourself, you let’s look at a company for you that is going to invest in you professionally. And then making sure that the client is setting KPIs to ensure that the actual candidate or their employee is therefore then hitting.
Jane: Well, they need them to hit, so passing exams, etc, or training each quarter before they, you know, if they do a bonus, then it could be attached to the bonus or they could say actually in six months time, as long as you pass XYZ exams and your salary will go up by XYZ. Do you see what I mean?
Dan: Absolutely. And so, yeah, interesting to understand the employer, the employers. Strategy around recruitment and remuneration as well as the competitors strategies as well. And there’s lots of different ways to approach the market. All are faced with the same challenge, which is that there aren’t enough people out there for all of the roles.
Dan: So that’s going to create attention and there are different tactics to employ. So, I do have one other question. And it kind of goes back to the original inflammatory statement. So what some MSPs might be thinking is over time we are going to use recruiters and then we’re gonna get to a certain size where we’re gonna be recruiting a lot, and therefore, why don’t we just bring it in-house and when we have a full-time recruiter or full-time recruitment team.
Dan: What’s your view on, what’s your view on that?
Jane: So when an MSP gets to a certain size, then yes, you’re right. They do that. And that’s absolutely fine because I think it makes commercially make sense for them to do that. But it does make commercial sense. They got to pay a salary rather than paying a recruitment for each time. And for me personally, I like to work with the companies that going for the different growth stages through the MSP.
Jane: And for me, that’s where I get the joy. The only thing that you end up. I guess if you want to counter argue it, if it is, if you’ve got a recruiter who is in your business, you’re probably not paying them commission guaranteed. So they’re just doing recruitment as their job. So it’s what they do. And they just bumble along.
Jane: You’ve almost got a plodder, whereas you haven’t got somebody who is ambitious and wants to really make a difference to your business. Not to say that all recruiters want to make a difference to your business, because again, that goes back to recruiters are not the same. But you’ll probably, unless you get a little superstar, then, I don’t know, there’s counter arguments for both, isn’t there, really?
Jane: For me, it’s not my sweet spot. Once a company gets too big, it just becomes almost like a churning, churning of people
Dan: and of course for you, there’s a finite size. You don’t necessarily want to end up with too, but too big a client concentration in your own situation. Otherwise that’s a risk to your business. And
Jane: Indeed. Yeah, absolutely. All the eggs in one basket and the rest of it. That’s
Adam: perhaps our last question what’s the future for the recruitment industry in the UK? When we have a global workforce, we have AI out there, we have a gigging type economy. Yeah. Where are you going to be in five, 10 years time? What’s it going to look like?
Jane: a really good question, Adam, to end on, isn’t it? Put me right on the spot there.
Dan: He’s good at
Jane: Well, for me, Yes, for me, it’s really about I’m building my business is something that I love and it’s a passion. And I really enjoy partnering with MSPs and being part of their business and helping them to grow. And for me, if I can, then in the next five years can help Other business owners build their teams and build their businesses to be able to a step out and do something else that they want to do.
Jane: I will be very happy with that. As for, I think, you know, there’s a lot of change isn’t there going on. There’s a, you know, like you say, a global workforce. Yes. There’s a lot, there’s been a massive peak in the U S market and recruitment, especially tech recruitment. People have gone, why aren’t you doing that?
Jane: don’t live in America. Why would I want to do American recruitment? I don’t know. They’re like, there’s loads of money in it though. And I’m like, might well
Adam: you think it’s, do you think it’s inevitable that the Western world is going to need to rely on other developing nations? in order to, you know, build their profitable models. What’s your thoughts on that?
Jane: like, I guess. If they are charging for a cheap service, then yeah, they’re probably going to have to look for cheaper alternatives for staffing and that’s where things get offshored, et cetera. But it depends upon the quality of the service they are providing, the types of clients that they’re working with, really.
Jane: And I think personally, and from what I’ve seen out there, is that it really is all about people. So people need to be seen and visited and felt loved and cared for and not to speak to somebody in Outer Mongolia,
Adam: Indeed. And of course there’s all sorts of options and there’s all sorts of customers out there for all of those just different options, right? So, so, you know, there could be a time when having a pure UK based workforce could be a differentiator,
Jane: Absolutely. Yeah.
Adam: you know, so who knows what it will look like in 10 years time.
Jane: Interesting.
Dan: Really yeah, really good chassis today, actually. And I think you’ve Navigated some of those questions with with real skill. So, congratulations and been great to have you with us. We we normally offer a customary shameless plug opportunities.
Dan: So, although I think you’ve already done pretty good job of telling people how you work. But yeah anything you’d like to share
Jane: Yeah, I mean, so, you know, WildCat Careers was born two and a half years ago. I’ve been a recruiter all my life. I’ve also worked on the other side of the fence where I’ve managed to help desk. So, you know, kind of know, well, I know both sides of the fence. It’s as simple as that. I know what it’s like to try and recruit into your own business.
Jane: And, you know, we are, and I’m really proud of it, is that we’ve won several awards, including the best IT and cyber and recruitment security. So I’ll start again. Let’s get the words out. The best IT and cyber security recruitment firm in 2024, plus other awards and you know, they’re not easy things to win.
Jane: And I’m really proud of the team. And I think that really sort of shows us apart. So
Dan: award winning recruitment. Brilliant. Jane, it’s been a real pleasure talking to you today and a really good conversation. And yeah I’m sure we’ll see you see you again very soon. Thank you.
Adam: Yes. Thanks very much, James. Been a pleasure.